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How can i get that double bass tone?

#21
+1 Thinking like a DB player. You don't get the sound just from the equipment.
First you have to 'feel it' - try playing a DB with song playing until you catch the 'feel'.
Second is translate that into electric bass technique to reproduce that 'feel'. This takes time.
Lastly, play around with EQ, amps, strings, etc to suit or enhance your 'feel' and technique until you get the most convincing sound.

I played a Jazz bass with Rounds with Fender valve amp w/ 15" in a Big Band using that approach. That suited my situation well. YMMV.
 
#23
Cymbalrush said:
hi there

i'm in a band at the moment and we gonna be doing some recording soon. i'm not a DB player but i love its tone and one of the songs we play would suit the DB tone nicely.

does anybody know how to get a DB tone out of an electric bass? be it through - effects? compression? EQ?

i play a marcus miller jazz with the John East Marcus retro 01 pre-amp if its of any help.

thanks alot!!! :bassist:

not sure if this thread is in the right place, sorry if it aint!
Click to expand...


I hadn't noticed that anyone asked, so I will. What tune are you to record that a double bass tone suits? I'm working on a response to the thread, but I'm interested in what tune that interests you.

Lloyd Howard
 
#24
The effort of making an electric bass sound like a double bass is pretty much an exercise in futility. I've been trying to find a solution to that problem for about 25 years. And although my present solution sounds half-way decent in the mix for a trio or quintet, it still sounds like a poor excuse for a double bass when trying to do a solo.

Most of the suggestions to roll back the mid controls and increase the bass I think are not the best solution. Tdvt's suggestion to not “dial out all your mids” is a good one. A double bass actually has a wide range of tones, its just that in a mix, those are somewhat overcome by the ensemble and volume level and the technician controlling the mixing board, if that's involved. This is true of the steel strings used on double basses today, but when gut strings were the norm, there was a less distinctive overtone structure and a shorter decay rate which I think many are trying to mimic by using a piece of rubber/foam mute under the strings near the bridge. There's also a varied degree of note decay depending on the bass and strings. I've never used a piece of rubber/foam to shorten the decay time on my fretless, but I can see its use if the tune were a slow ballad, but on medium and up tempo tunes, I don't see the need for it.

I've played double bass for 46 years and I took up electric bass 25 years ago. So I come from a little different perspective. As far as thinking like a double bassist, hmmm, even though I'm coming from the other direction, I don't think I've been able to translate entirely what I do on double bass completely to fretless. I guess my take on that would be that if you really want to “think” like a double bassist, then you really need to pick up the instrument at least a little to more fully understand that concept. They may play the same notes, but they're entirely different instruments in approach and execution. One younger player I met a few years ago who is equally competent on both is Brian Bromberg. A very interesting player to hear.

My current setup on electric bass to simulate a double bass is a fretless I built 26 years ago from scratch.

1.jpg


I've tried a number of different pickups, starting with ceramic Dimarzio's (P-bass style) to what I'm using today which is an EMG active pickup. I've used various types of strings, flat and round wound, and have been using LaBella Deep Talkin' Jamerson's for the last couple years. I currently use a EA Micro 300 amp, an older SansAmp Acoustic DI preamp ( Invalid Link Removed ) and an EA CxL110 cab with an Eminence 10 in Basslite driver (the original coaxial driver had the bass driver's voice coil leads come loose and rattle and EA no longer carried the driver and so I went hunting for a suitable replacement). The amp's tone controls, bass, mids and highs are at 12 o'clock. The SansAmp is about 11 o'clock for the bass (maybe 12 depending on the room), mids 12 o'clock and about 9 o'clock for the highs. I also have the blend (tube enhancer) at about 1 o'clock and the mid shift at 160Hz. I use a Fishman Platinum Pro-Eq for double bass.

Contrary to the beliefs of many, a double bass does not have a substantial amount of fundamental in the lowest octave or so (listening not miked or with a pickup) as compared to an electric bass, but does have a tremendously varied tonal response through out its range and results in some basses have a brighter tone while some others have a darker tone inherent from their design. The cabinet can also over accentuate the lowest octave so it sounds bass heavy and un-natural as most cabs are meant for electric bass, not double bass. Many that hear my fretless setup comment that it is as close as they've heard an electric bass sound to a double bass. I also play fretted instruments, 4 ond 5 string depending on the group and style of music with other amps/cabs. You may ask why do I play a fretless bass when I already play double bass. Its just that there are a number of places I would never take a double bass. Also, if the volume level is going to be excessive (and I try to avoid those types of gigs), why use a double bass?

Sorry for the long post. I hope this gives you some food for thought.

Lloyd Howard
 
#26
lhoward said:
The effort of making an electric bass sound like a double bass is pretty much an exercise in futility. I've been trying to find a solution to that problem for about 25 years. And although my present solution sounds half-way decent in the mix for a trio or quintet, it still sounds like a poor excuse for a double bass when trying to do a solo.

I've played double bass for 46 years and I took up electric bass 25 years ago. So I come from a little different perspective. As far as thinking like a double bassist, hmmm, even though I'm coming from the other direction, I don't think I've been able to translate entirely what I do on double bass completely to fretless. I guess my take on that would be that if you really want to “think” like a double bassist, then you really need to pick up the instrument at least a little to more fully understand that concept. They may play the same notes, but they're entirely different instruments in approach and execution.
Click to expand...

Better said than I could say Lloyd.
 
#27
phmike said:
I've heard it said you should also 'think double bass' while playing so your note choices will fit the groove as a real double bassist would play them.
Click to expand...

I've said something like this over and over over the years and it's true. The gear you use will help but a fretless with flats and a little verb or delay is about as close as the gear will ever get with a solidbody you and that is MILES away from what a double bass really sounds like. The only way to get halfway convincing double bass sound from a solidbody bass guitar is to play it like an upright in terms of articulation.

In terms of real tone a fretless ABG can get you damn close and that's what I'd really be looking at. Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofiRjFl4WD4&feature=related
 
#29
It's easier just to be a doubler than worry about how to make one instrument sound like another. For my main band, I always bring both an EBG and an upright.

However, I've got one bass guitar that's pretty upright-like. That's my Sterling fretless 4, original pickup swapped out for a Nordstrand, equipped with La Bella black nylon tapewounds, and the mids and highs EQ'd way low. That's because the Sterling is naturally EQ'd so high. I use it for jazz gigs where an upright won't fit (like a restaurant gig).
 
#31
RustyAxe said:
Short answer ... you can't. But ... if you string it up with flats, use the neck pickup only, play at the end of the fretboard, dump the treble and mids and boost the bass a bit you might come close.
Click to expand...

+1.

I play both, and there really is nothing that comes close to an upright. IMHO, even the best EUBs don't really come that close. Flats, neck PUP, pluck on the neck, foam mute, dump the mids and highs is the best you can get. The tone isn't really upright--it's more like old school thump (Dunn, Jamerson, etc.)

Besides, the space and physical layout of the upright supports a phrasing style that is also hard to cop on guitar body.
 
#32
Mr. Howard offers a lot of great thoughts on this subject. I’ve been struggling with this for over 30 years. As with anything, you can go as deep or as shallow as you want to go with it. You can pick up pretty much any electric bass and, with the right tonal settings and technique, can likely create a reasonable enough facsimile for the occasional pop tune. If you want to go deeper, just know that you’ll never get an electric to sound exactly like an upright. As others have noted, the two instruments are very different creatures with their own set of problems and challenges, and the more familiarity an electric player has with the upright bass, the better suited they are to emulate it. In my case, I started on electric bass guitar over 30 years ago and have always been primarily an electric player, but studied classical upright bass through college and did orchestral work for several years -- while still playing jazz on electric. Since all I ever owned for uprights were cheap plywood Kay basses that sounded and played horribly, that lack of a decent instrument unfortunately discouraged me from pursuing jazz on it. But, being primarily a jazz and Latin/jazz electric bassist for many years, my influences in the jazz arena have always been the great jazz upright players almost exclusively, so naturally I’ve spent thousands of hours listening to those guys and many years working on emulating not just the sound, but the whole essence….and playing with a lot of good jazz players has helped.

I haven’t tried any of the suggestions on this forum for getting an upright sound out of an electric as far as instruments, pickups, foam, etc., but it’s obviously a very personal thing…. whatever works to get you there. For me, it hasn’t happened through electronic wizardry as much as it has through my ears, hands, and technique. Obviously, some electric bass guitars are more suited to the task than others…..a fretless certainly helps…..I play an MTD 5-string fretless that has gotten me as close to an upright bass sound as I’ve ever had, but (1) it wouldn’t happen without my familiarity with and love for the upright bass, and (2) it still requires the proper technique to make it happen -- plucking the strings up closer to, or over, the fingerboard….the right attack…..proper muting, which I’ve always done just with my left hand, etc.



The person who suggested dialing back all the mids is obviously not very familiar with the upright bass. The full scope of midrange is almost exclusively what you hear from an upright bass. Listen to Ron Carter’s sound. On my MTD, when I’m doing straight ahead jazz, I generally run the bass control at about midpoint, the midrange ALL THE WAY UP, and the treble all the way down. This gives me all the low end I could ever want and a lot of mid/”woody” tone, while cutting out the “glassy” high end that you get with active-EQ electric basses (great for clarity and cutting through the mix when playing other styles, but not for getting a jazz upright sound). Obviously when playing other styles, the tonal settings vary, but this setup has worked amazingly well for me for straight ahead jazz. And obviously, the type of wood and construction of the bass are big factors too. As for amplification, I’m running through a Carvin head and one, sometimes two Bag End S15-D cabs. As close as this has gotten me to an upright sound, it’s never ideal and never will be…..and you get in a really lousy sounding room and it all goes down the toilet.



:bassist:
 
#33
You dont need anything, not high action, no foam, no eq, no nothin'. All you need is the edge of your palm resting across the strings right up against the saddles, and pluck with your thumb. Dont roll off all your treble, one of the components of the double bass sound is treble. This is what articulates the double bass. I play double bass, and I can get a reasonable approximation of the sound by doing the palm mute on a bass guitar.
 
#37
lhoward said:
The effort of making an electric bass sound like a double bass is pretty much an exercise in futility. I've been trying to find a solution to that problem for about 25 years. And although my present solution sounds half-way decent in the mix for a trio or quintet, it still sounds like a poor excuse for a double bass when trying to do a solo.

Most of the suggestions to roll back the mid controls and increase the bass I think are not the best solution. Tdvt's suggestion to not “dial out all your mids” is a good one. A double bass actually has a wide range of tones, its just that in a mix, those are somewhat overcome by the ensemble and volume level and the technician controlling the mixing board, if that's involved. This is true of the steel strings used on double basses today, but when gut strings were the norm, there was a less distinctive overtone structure and a shorter decay rate which I think many are trying to mimic by using a piece of rubber/foam mute under the strings near the bridge. There's also a varied degree of note decay depending on the bass and strings. I've never used a piece of rubber/foam to shorten the decay time on my fretless, but I can see its use if the tune were a slow ballad, but on medium and up tempo tunes, I don't see the need for it.

I've played double bass for 46 years and I took up electric bass 25 years ago. So I come from a little different perspective. As far as thinking like a double bassist, hmmm, even though I'm coming from the other direction, I don't think I've been able to translate entirely what I do on double bass completely to fretless. I guess my take on that would be that if you really want to “think” like a double bassist, then you really need to pick up the instrument at least a little to more fully understand that concept. They may play the same notes, but they're entirely different instruments in approach and execution. One younger player I met a few years ago who is equally competent on both is Brian Bromberg. A very interesting player to hear.

My current setup on electric bass to simulate a double bass is a fretless I built 26 years ago from scratch.

1.jpg


I've tried a number of different pickups, starting with ceramic Dimarzio's (P-bass style) to what I'm using today which is an EMG active pickup. I've used various types of strings, flat and round wound, and have been using LaBella Deep Talkin' Jamerson's for the last couple years. I currently use a EA Micro 300 amp, an older SansAmp Acoustic DI preamp ( Invalid Link Removed ) and an EA CxL110 cab with an Eminence 10 in Basslite driver (the original coaxial driver had the bass driver's voice coil leads come loose and rattle and EA no longer carried the driver and so I went hunting for a suitable replacement). The amp's tone controls, bass, mids and highs are at 12 o'clock. The SansAmp is about 11 o'clock for the bass (maybe 12 depending on the room), mids 12 o'clock and about 9 o'clock for the highs. I also have the blend (tube enhancer) at about 1 o'clock and the mid shift at 160Hz. I use a Fishman Platinum Pro-Eq for double bass.

Contrary to the beliefs of many, a double bass does not have a substantial amount of fundamental in the lowest octave or so (listening not miked or with a pickup) as compared to an electric bass, but does have a tremendously varied tonal response through out its range and results in some basses have a brighter tone while some others have a darker tone inherent from their design. The cabinet can also over accentuate the lowest octave so it sounds bass heavy and un-natural as most cabs are meant for electric bass, not double bass. Many that hear my fretless setup comment that it is as close as they've heard an electric bass sound to a double bass. I also play fretted instruments, 4 ond 5 string depending on the group and style of music with other amps/cabs. You may ask why do I play a fretless bass when I already play double bass. Its just that there are a number of places I would never take a double bass. Also, if the volume level is going to be excessive (and I try to avoid those types of gigs), why use a double bass?

Sorry for the long post. I hope this gives you some food for thought.

Lloyd Howard
Click to expand...

fantastic post, thank you!

i asked this question thinking iwas going to get a definative answer. i realise now i naive.

what you said makes alot of sense. its funny how many people have conflicting ideas.
 
#39
Another thing you can do is raise yer action. It will allow you to dig in like you have to on an upright. Like I say it's really about the articulation. You can take all the great advise in this and other thread on strings, effects, amp settings etc but without the double bass-like articulation you won't fool anyone.
 

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