How can I modify LaBella black tape strings to work on a SRH505F

[KaZGrizzy]

I could only find one other thread even mentioning this combination of bass and string, wanting other suggestions and claiming nothing is wrong with them.

This could not be more wrong, there is one enormous problem, LaBella only makes their high strings in extra long or extra short scale, 38 or 32 1/4 inches from ball to silk, while the SRH505F has a scale length of 36 inches and the first tuning post is exactly 38 inches from the bridge.

Which means that I cannot play plugged in and get any sound picked up from the 1st string. So I'd like some advice as to either how I can modify the string to fix this or what individual string I could replace it with that will have similar sound qualities and fit the scale.

 

[HaphAsSard]

I could only find one other thread even mentioning this combination of bass and string, wanting other suggestions and claiming nothing is wrong with them.

This could not be more wrong, there is one enormous problem, LaBella only makes their high strings in extra long or extra short scale, 38 or 32 1/4 inches from ball to silk, while the SRH505F has a scale length of 36 inches and the first tuning post is exactly 38 inches from the bridge.

Which means that I cannot play plugged in and get any sound picked up from the 1st string. So I'd like some advice as to either how I can modify the string to fix this or what individual string I could replace it with that will have similar sound qualities and fit the scale.

- What do you mean with 1st string? the G or the B?
- 38" is the thick winding length (from ball-end to silk) of the string - there is more string (only thinner, meant for winding on the post) past that point;
- the scale length of the Ibanez SRH505F is 34", not 36";
- what do you mean with the sound not getting picked up? How is it related to the full winding length of the string?

 

[michael_t]

LaBella only makes their high strings in extra long or extra short scale, 38 or 32 1/4 inches from ball to silk, while the SRH505F has a scale length of 36 inches and the first tuning post is exactly 38 inches from the bridge.

Which means that I cannot play plugged in and get any sound picked up from the 1st string.

I don't understand what the problem is...

If the winding length on the string is 38" and it's long enough to reach past the nut, that means it fits the bass just fine. Why wouldn't you be able to "get any sound from the pickup" when the string has the right length?

 

[Jon Moody]

while the SRH505F has a scale length of 36 inches and the first tuning post is exactly 38 inches from the bridge.

The SRH505F is a 34" scale bass.

The winding length from the first tuning post to the bridge of 38" is fine. You shouldn't have many issues with proper string fitment.

Which means that I cannot play plugged in and get any sound picked up from the 1st string.

That's the concerning part. Your bass has a piezo bridge, so it shouldn't be having this issue as it's not dependent upon the material of the string. I'd have that looked at first.

 

[KaZGrizzy]

The SRH505F is a 34" scale bass.

The winding length from the first tuning post to the bridge of 38" is fine. You shouldn't have many issues with proper string fitment.




That's the concerning part. Your bass has a piezo bridge, so it shouldn't be having this issue as it's not dependent upon the material of the string. I'd have that looked at first.

The problem is that I cannot wind the string to tune without part of the tape part going around the post, there is no problem until that point, then the sound goes away other than a popping sound. I've opened up the panel on the trim pots to switch the input to the extra one to verify, it isn't the piezo it's the string.

 

[KaZGrizzy]

- What do you mean with 1st string? the G or the B?
- 38" is the thick winding length (from ball-end to silk) of the string - there is more string (only thinner, meant for winding on the post) past that point;
- the scale length of the Ibanez SRH505F is 34", not 36";
- what do you mean with the sound not getting picked up? How is it related to the full winding length of the string?

I'm talking about the g string, the problem is that the silk part meant for winding begins after the post, so when I wind it to tune a little bit of the tape portion goes around the post and kills the sound, if I pluck the string as I'm tuning everything is fine until I get close to being in tune, then the sound goes away other than a popping noise.

 

[michael_t]

I'd like some advice as to either how I can modify the string to fix this or what individual string I could replace it with that will have similar sound qualities and fit the scale.

I don't think you can modify a tapewound to change the winding length.

But you can always try black tapewounds by other manufacturers.

D'Addario "long scale" = 36 7/8" ball end to silk (blue) on all four.

GHS "long scale" = 37.25" ball end to silk (red) on all four.

 

[HaphAsSard]

a little bit of the tape portion goes around the post and kills the sound

It does sound strange, but you're identifying the fact that the unsilked part of the string gets in contact with the post as the cause for the sound cutting off. There is zero reason why this would be the case. Unfortunately you have no way of trying to reproduce the effect by installing the G in another position (because no other tuning post is at that distance from te bridge). However, you could try installing the D in the G-string position (just put something thin and stiff on the nut slot, so that neither it nor the nylon tape get damaged), and see if the same phenomenon occurs.

Your bass has a piezo bridge, so it shouldn't be having this issue as it's not dependent upon the material of the string.

More than one poster have reported problems with the interaction of tapes and electric piezo bridges, but I've always thought the reason might be an insufficient down-pressure on the saddle. Here the problem appears when the string is tightened past a certain point. It is a toughie.

 

[micguy]

Piezo bridges are about the most fickle thing I've ever had the displeasure of working with. I don't think the issue has anything to do with the string's construction - I'm betting the tension of the string at some point upsets the force you need to have on the piezo pickup, and that force (or lack thereof) issue is what's losing you output on a string.

Trying to get all the strings on a piezo bridge to be equal volume with one saddle between the strings and the piezo element is often just about impossible. What does work is cutting the saddle with a fine saw so that you have as many saddles as there are strings - that way, each string puts equal pressure on the piezo. My latest piezo adventure was on a Ubass, and until I did this, getting all 4 strings to work equally was just not happening. Once I did that, they're all there, with equal output. I had the same adventure a couple years earlier with a Breedlove acoustic - same issue, same fix.

 

[BassFalcon]

Correlation does not imply causation

the winding and the G-string dropping out is a coincidence. Of that you can be sure. What it is most likely is your piezo is damaged and when it finally gets enough pressure on it (tuned to pitch, I.e. winding on the post) it gives out. That’s how Piezos fail sometimes.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Correlation does not imply causation

the winding and the G-string dropping out is a coincidence. Of that you can be sure. What it is most likely is your piezo is damaged and when it finally gets enough pressure on it (tuned to pitch, I.e. winding on the post) it gives out. That’s how Piezos fail sometimes.

Yeah, it's probably related to the pressure over the piezo. However, this particular bass does not have an acoustic style saddle. On this bass you might actually pull the bridge away from the piezo and get LESS pressure on the piezo when tightening the strings. It depends on precisely where the piezo is located I guess... I would check that the brigde screws are properly fastened.

It's either that or the piezo is most likely shot.

 

[Aidil]

I'm talking about the g string, the problem is that the silk part meant for winding begins after the post, so when I wind it to tune a little bit of the tape portion goes around the post and kills the sound, if I pluck the string as I'm tuning everything is fine until I get close to being in tune, then the sound goes away other than a popping noise.

This is the string windings on the tuner posts of my SRH505F when I had La Bella Copper White Nylon Tapes on:

Yes, the G string winding on the post reached the tape portion, but there wasn't any problem with the bass being played with an amp as the G string and the rests could be seated on the piezo saddles just fine.

I can only guess you may have done something to ruin the piezo saddle of the G string when you changed strings. Check the saddle. It has somekind of plastic part that is meant to be the recipient of the string vibrations seated on top of it. Make sure it's not ruined or there's something clogging it that prevents it from sensing the string vibrations.

 

[Thundar]

I actually own that same bass and have it strung with D'addario Tapewounds, and I don't have any issues at all.
In regards to what @micguy said about the problems with piezos and string volume, luckily this particular Ibanez has gain adjustments for each string on the back of the bass. I am really pleased with the sound of these tapes on mine, as I cannot stand the sound or feel of flatwounds....on any bass.

 

[GIBrat51]

I could only find one other thread even mentioning this combination of bass and string, wanting other suggestions and claiming nothing is wrong with them.

This could not be more wrong, there is one enormous problem, LaBella only makes their high strings in extra long or extra short scale, 38 or 32 1/4 inches from ball to silk, while the SRH505F has a scale length of 36 inches and the first tuning post is exactly 38 inches from the bridge.

Which means that I cannot play plugged in and get any sound picked up from the 1st string. So I'd like some advice as to either how I can modify the string to fix this or what individual string I could replace it with that will have similar sound qualities and fit the scale.

If you end up with more than one wrap of the speaking part of a string on any tuner post, then yeah; your strings are too long. Having a half-turn or so of the speaking part of a string on a post is, sad to say, not all that uncommon. I have a bass or three that has this "problem" with the particular strings I like on it. Not a problem - for me. The part of a string from the ball end to where the silk starts - or where the string starts to taper (the "speaking length") - varies quite a bit from company to company - as any string length table will show. However, having a little of that part of a string on a tuner post is harmless - unless you have a really bad case of OCD...

I actually own that same bass and have it strung with D'addario Tapewounds, and I don't have any issues at all.
In regards to what @micguy said about the problems with piezos and string volume, luckily this particular Ibanez has gain adjustments for each string on the back of the bass. I am really pleased with the sound of these tapes on mine, as I cannot stand the sound or feel of flatwounds....on any bass.

I'm inclined to agree with this. If you have access to your gain controls on that bass, it might be a good idea to check them; and, maybe give them a tweak or two...

 

[micguy]

I actually own that same bass and have it strung with D'addario Tapewounds, and I don't have any issues at all.
In regards to what @micguy said about the problems with piezos and string volume, luckily this particular Ibanez has gain adjustments for each string on the back of the bass.

If things are in working order, those gain knobs allow you to even things out. When a string isn't making correct contact through a saddle, however, I'm pretty sure they have nowhere near enough range to fix things. If you haven't experienced a "missing string" issue with a piezo pickup, you may not appreciate how far down in level a string can be when things aren't working right.

 

[Thundar]

If things are in working order, those gain knobs allow you to even things out. When a string isn't making correct contact through a saddle, however, I'm pretty sure they have nowhere near enough range to fix things. If you haven't experienced a "missing string" issue with a piezo pickup, you may not appreciate how far down in level a string can be when things aren't working right.

Oh I wasn't disagreeing with you or suggesting that the gain adjustment was a resolution to the OP's problem, I was just putting the information out there.

 

[BAG]

What does work is cutting the saddle with a fine saw so that you have as many saddles as there are strings - that way, each string puts equal pressure on the piezo. My latest piezo adventure was on a Ubass, and until I did this, getting all 4 strings to work equally was just not happening. Once I did that, they're all there, with equal output. I had the same adventure a couple years earlier with a Breedlove acoustic - same issue, same fix.

Can you show us your work with this?

 

[micguy]

Can you show us your work with this?

Here's a shot that shows it - the cuts go all the way through the saddle, making it 4 discrete saddles. This makes a big difference in string balance.

 

[Aidil]

Piezo bridges are about the most fickle thing I've ever had the displeasure of working with. I don't think the issue has anything to do with the string's construction - I'm betting the tension of the string at some point upsets the force you need to have on the piezo pickup, and that force (or lack thereof) issue is what's losing you output on a string.

Trying to get all the strings on a piezo bridge to be equal volume with one saddle between the strings and the piezo element is often just about impossible. What does work is cutting the saddle with a fine saw so that you have as many saddles as there are strings - that way, each string puts equal pressure on the piezo. My latest piezo adventure was on a Ubass, and until I did this, getting all 4 strings to work equally was just not happening. Once I did that, they're all there, with equal output. I had the same adventure a couple years earlier with a Breedlove acoustic - same issue, same fix.

The bass in question, the Ibanez SRH500F, despite being a semi hollowbody bass and does rely solely on piezo pickups (emphasize plural) to output its sound to an amp, it isn't equipped with the same one saddle and a piezo element underneath as most acoustic guitars, acoustic basses or the aforementioned Breedlove.

It already has individual saddle per string and each has its own piezo element. Also, the onboard piezo preamp has individual trim pot per string to match the string volumes. So in this very case, no need such depicted modification, and it's already mentioned by OP that he tweaked the pot to assess the issue with no good result.

No doubt a good downward pressure is required on any piezo systems. But, I tend to see the problem OP is having as the G string saddle disfunction. Could be that it is just the G string isn't properly seating on the saddle (this is silly, but it really happened on mine when I wasn't paying attention to the string bridge end position when tuning to pitch uppon installing new string), something might have been stuck in between the saddle and the piezo element underneath, or the G string piezo may have been busted in which OP would need a replacement part.