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How can I reduce my stage mic picking up drums?

Baker69

Baker69

Mar 24, 2008
2,048
1,149
UK
#1
We went over to using IEM’s a while back, and we do our own on stage IEM mix on our IPads. I have noticed for a while though that I can not put any drums through my mix as they are plenty loud enough already! My ear buds are fairly good at sound isolating and I realised that my stage mic is brilliant at picking up drums and cymbals. (our drummer is fairly loud by the way).

A lot of the venues we do are fairly small with smallish sized stages and at times I am fairly close to the drummer which doesn’t help things. We have discussed the possibility of using a Perspex screen in front of the drums as the other vocal mics pick up the drums as well, but I’m not sure whether we will ever go ahead with this, so I am thinking would a different type of vocal mic help? I have an SM58 which I have read is probably the worst mic that I could have in these situations so am wondering whether something like a 58A Beta mic would be better as it is a super-cardioid mic with a narrower pattern? At the moment the vocal mics are acting as excellent drum overhead mics!

Would changing to a 58A Beta mic help, or maybe there is a better solution?
 
#5
MrLenny1 said:
Loud band & small stage sounds like main issue.
IMHO go DI.
Click to expand...

Yes, as you say that is the main issue but the band isn’t particularly loud (except for the drummer at times), we have backline amps which are set fairly low and are there for “feel” more than anything as we all use IEM’s, but it is a loud drum kit and on small stages we are quite close to the drums. On bigger stages we are obviously spread out more and there’s less drums being picked up by the vocal mics.
 
#10
Changing to a Beta should help as the polar pattern is tighter: supercardiod VS cardioid.

SM58s are really bad about picking up hash from the cymbals.

People who have sang on an SM58 for decades may struggle with a more directional mic. Singers often work an SM58 by moving it back and forth a significant distance from their mouth. More directional mics require less distance between the mouth and mic. So you can't work them the same way.

Keeping the mic close to the mouth, typically means it hears the voice louder. This means the gain can be turned down a bit, which will drop the level of the drums and cymbals in the mic.

A side effect of singing close to a highly directional mic is something called proximity effect. Essentially the low frequency response becomes more bass heavy as you move closer to the mic. I consider this a feature. EQ the channel for a natural vocal sound and the mic will be less sensitive from low frequencies coming from distance sound sources.

The EQ curve I use for vocals starts out something like this.

upload_2020-9-24_1-24-28-png.3994691

The low frequency cut counteracts proximity effect.

Proximity Effect:
upload_2022-4-29_15-5-33-png.4675341

Notice the mic picks up more lows as the sound source is moved closer.
 
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#12
As a guy who also runs sound, honestly it’s hard to get away from this issue. I’ll gate vocal mics, but then you’ll hear the drums as soon as anyone sings, and if the level is right on the threshold the gates will sometimes open and close and lead to a distracting experience out front. The best solution I’ve come up with is to either hard gate the mics or roll with it and essentially use the vocal mics as overheads. In a small venue neither of those are great solutions, especially with a loud drummer, but a small venue presents challenges no matter what.

As far as the beta 58/sm58 choice, for me in a small venue it just doesn’t make much difference with a loud drummer. The beta 58 does seem to require the singer to stay in front of it more and is less forgiving of singing off to the side. Often the Beta58 is better if you have wedges off to the side of the singer vs directly in front of the singer, where the SM58 is a better choice.
 
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#13
Baker69 said:
I only do B.V.’s so is the 58A Beta suitable?
Click to expand...


Yes.

Whether it suits your particular voice is another matter. The Beta 58 may work well for you, and it may not. I personally think the Beta 58 sounds way better than the SM58, but lot's of people disagree.

If you are going to try something different, I would suggest demoing various mics to try and find one that works well with your voice.

Keep in mind there are some advantages to all vocalists using the same type of mic.

If you don't like the way a gate works, you can also consider a footswitch to turns the mic on and off.
 
#14
As a drummer, I realize that many drummers don’t like them, but this is where V-Drums really shine. The loudest thing on our stage is the vocals. The latest Roland VAD kits are incredible, but also pricey.

Otherwise, a mic with a tight directional pattern, good mic technique and placement, and gating is all you can do, apart from putting your drummer behind a transparent screen. That definitely helps to control stage volume.
 
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#16
My SM58 is the model with the slide switch, so I could switch the mic off for those songs that I don’t sing on, or even a footswitch as you suggest.

I’m tempted to get an SM58A Beta anyway, I have been chewing over getting one for a while and it may help. I’ll also ask our sound guy if he can gate my mic.
 
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#20
Wasnex said:
Looks like street price for the Beta 58 is about $170.

I suggest checking out similar priced mics such as:
Sennheiser E945 ($200), E845 ($99)
Audix OM5 ($170)
Click to expand...

I’ve seen good reviews on the Sennheiser E945, worth considering and it’s also a super-cardioid mic.

The on-off microphone foot switches seem a bit expensive, must be fairly easy to make one. The one’s I’ve seen all seem to be phantom powered.

Our next gig is 4 weeks away due to holidays, if I haven’t bought a new mic by then I will try switching the mic off when it’s not required and I’ll also try and angle my mic away from the drums. I’m sure the noise gate option will only take our sound guy a few minutes to sort out?
 
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