No you wouldn’t.
In fact, if you walked out you wouldn’t be replaced with someone better.
Know how I know?
Someone better isn’t there now, and if they were, they wouldn’t tolerate the situation.
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How do I make learning 11 songs a week less painful?
- Thread starter Donald Thompson
- Start date
No you wouldn’t.
In fact, if you walked out you wouldn’t be replaced with someone better.
Know how I know?
Someone better isn’t there now, and if they were, they wouldn’t tolerate the situation.
It always surprises me how many people are willing to devalue their own time by accepting requests that, to me, are borderline ridiculous. And then to suggest the OP should suck it up and acquiesce to this.
There are a gazillion good ways to run an organization but requesting three times the amount of necessary work from people you aren't paying to do that work isn't one of them. Potential benefits are amorphous and do not apply to every person or even to most people in that situation; not everyone is going to find that whatever there is to learn from this outweighs the stress and stupidity involved.
So if I were the OP I would probably take any advice that offers ways to actually do this silly thing with a large grain of pink Himalayan salt.
Unfortunately, praise and worship music is often run by non-pros who have never really done this in any other context, and believe that because they've been given a responsibility by the church they can rely on some otherworldly power to make it all come together, regardless of the demands they're putting on others.
It's up to the people being asked to stand up to this. OP says he'll be replaced by a better player who they'll have to pay if he balks. So? They'll be learning something the hard way and feeling it in their wallet and that's probably a better learning opportunity for the BL than whatever the OP might be getting. Is having your time abused and disrespected better than walking away from this? The middle position is always to attempt to talk it out, but once that's tried then it's really a matter of deciding you're willing to be taken advantage of or not.
OP, I feel for you in this situation because I know it is a hard thing to say no, and it's an especially hard thing in the context of worship service where we're always expected to use our "gifts" in service to the church. But the church also has a responsibility to treat us with respect, and that's not happening here.
There are a gazillion good ways to run an organization but requesting three times the amount of necessary work from people you aren't paying to do that work isn't one of them. Potential benefits are amorphous and do not apply to every person or even to most people in that situation; not everyone is going to find that whatever there is to learn from this outweighs the stress and stupidity involved.
So if I were the OP I would probably take any advice that offers ways to actually do this silly thing with a large grain of pink Himalayan salt.
Unfortunately, praise and worship music is often run by non-pros who have never really done this in any other context, and believe that because they've been given a responsibility by the church they can rely on some otherworldly power to make it all come together, regardless of the demands they're putting on others.
It's up to the people being asked to stand up to this. OP says he'll be replaced by a better player who they'll have to pay if he balks. So? They'll be learning something the hard way and feeling it in their wallet and that's probably a better learning opportunity for the BL than whatever the OP might be getting. Is having your time abused and disrespected better than walking away from this? The middle position is always to attempt to talk it out, but once that's tried then it's really a matter of deciding you're willing to be taken advantage of or not.
OP, I feel for you in this situation because I know it is a hard thing to say no, and it's an especially hard thing in the context of worship service where we're always expected to use our "gifts" in service to the church. But the church also has a responsibility to treat us with respect, and that's not happening here.
As said by others this is unacceptable and unprofessional. This is not a paid position and a perfect example of "your not being paid so they don't give a rats backside and is a complete lack of respect".
I have been involved in church music since I was 9 years old and never once been treated such with disregard and lack of respect.
I have been the bass player since 1997 in my current church. We get at least a 13 week schedule of music. The leader knows his range and the range of others. We are provided with SHEET music, SATB and chords, in advance of rehearsal if it is new music to us or you are new to the group, and audio samples. We are provided with a sheet showing the list of music for the Following Sunday on the prior Sunday with the "final list" so that we can practice and be ready for rehearsal. We often have suggestions and there are also corrections hence the final list. We put it together at rehearsal, we do not learn our parts at rehearsal. Learning your part at rehearsal is lack of respect for the other volunteers time.
I currently use MobileSheets to organize and display my Music. (One of the best apps I have, what a joy). I currently have 520 different pieces for the Church, 8,000 pieces total. I only scanned perhaps 60/70 % or the paper versions I had for Church as we were unlikely to do the others again.
The first year was real rough and the second only a little better. Every week it was 8 new pieces (to me) of music. No disrespect to studio musicians, but this felt like studio work to me. 3 days to learn all 7, rehearse, and 2 days to lock it down, and run through the changes on Sunday as reinforcement before leaving the house. Then you are expected to to stand up and play one song, sit, then stand up again play another, sit, repeat and rinse. It was tough getting into a grow and warmed up. But I learned to do it. I enjoyed the challenge, I was respected, and I was making a difference. As I entered the 3rd year it got easier, I actually noticed music started to repeat, and I was thankful I left plenty of notes and scribbles on my music to guide me.
If we are doing music new to the group, we always rehearse it multiple times and if the key is wrong we distributive the music in the right key before continuing. No surprises when it's rehearsed or use on the following Sunday. Sometimes Key changes happen with new stuff especially if more contemporary or modern.
The people in our group have been together for ages literally. People do come and go as life changes. But we make sure they know they are welcome, and we help them get up and running. We will spend more time going over things we already know to help them get up to speed, especially with harmonies.
One thought, if you don't already understand basic music theory (it's much easier than it sounds), then learning music theory will help a lot. Also learn the music for Sun after rehearsal, that way you only learn what you have to. Run through all the Chord changes on all the music before rehearsal so that you have a rudimentary handle. Now if rehearsal is Saturday that does not help much.
But you are going to have to talk to the WL about this, I learned in grammar school that if I don't understand something much of the class doesn't either, so I always asked. The rest later admitted they were too chicken to ask. So bring it up, make it a group conversation. If the others already know the music, then ask why don't they have more of a clue, and why chase people away.
It might be a good short term experience too. You might learn to make this happen and that is a valuable skill. But this could also be a red flag for the WL. This is what you see now. Keep your eyes open, and only stay if it is a good fit, and it's not causing you too much stress. New process is always a bit stressful.
If you can get the WL to act professionally and reasonably, then it's a great experience.
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Sounds like an absolute nightmare.
Best I can think of, short of "there's no way I can do this", is making your own cheat sheets and not bothering to memorize much.
Best I can think of, short of "there's no way I can do this", is making your own cheat sheets and not bothering to memorize much.
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That's literally the least efficient rehearsal protocol I've ever heard of.
Prep ~3x the number of songs you're actually going to perform, in different keys than you're actually going to perform them in?
What an absolutely comical waste of everyone's time and energy
Speak up now, cause if you don't it will eventually all come out anyways, and it'll probably be uglier, as in somebody quits. Personally, I would simply say that I can't learn 11 songs a week, so pick 4 or so and be done with it, and if the BL resists just say, "no can do".
In a situation like that, if some type of chart isn’t available, I’d bow out.
I’ve been playing bass for over 50 year and don’t need to be subjected to those conditions.
I'm confused about this situation. Are you not playing in church for free?
Why is anybody hard on the pianist? And you don't feel comfortable having a conversation with the band leader.
I'd quit and find better people to play with. Playing music should give you joy, not unrealistic expectations and negative vibes.
I beg to differ. Any group that I am part of I will open my mouth, especially if I see something stupid. The OP's situation qualifies as stupid. I am not there by force, I have free will. I will speak up, and if the result is unacceptable to me, I'm done and gone. That can even can apply in a sub position if for example dangerous conditions.
If I am a hired gun and I am well compensated, not penny anti stuff, It is a high bar, and if I am committed, I do my best to comply. Also if "hired" it's not my gig you have to respect the "owner" of the gig. If your not able to work with the situation, you should not start, and if you did, bow out gracefully.
Now we are all (myself included) getting ahead of ourselves. The absolute 1st thing to do is have a conversation with the Worship Leader, and explain how this is not a workable situation. Who knows what the reasons actually are, and was it a one off, or the result of lots of new singers and no clue of capabilities yet, etc, or it's a poisonous WL. A conversation, not yelling, accusing etc. Find out 1st, and then determine if this is acceptable to you right up front. Going to the pastor does not solve the problem, but you could write a resignation letter, or a letter of why you can not join the group.
Playing at Church and rehearsal is the highlight of my week, I look forward to it. It should not be something that stresses you out to the point of it causing health trouble. Stress is a killer.
to OP I hope you find a situation that will will enjoy as much as I do, they are out there, don't settle.
As others have said, the number system will help.
As far as the BL, it may be better to say it’s too difficult for YOU to learn so many songs so you will only perform twice per month. You should still get the 11 songs a week (and find out which key was used after the fact) but songs should be repeating. The people in the church don’t want to hear 4 new songs every week so there must be a lot of repeats. Once you know most of the core songs, you can go back to the weekly schedule.
There are other band members who are making it work. Speak with them *about your difficulty with learning so many songs* before causing trouble. Don’t start by finding fault with others.
As far as the BL, it may be better to say it’s too difficult for YOU to learn so many songs so you will only perform twice per month. You should still get the 11 songs a week (and find out which key was used after the fact) but songs should be repeating. The people in the church don’t want to hear 4 new songs every week so there must be a lot of repeats. Once you know most of the core songs, you can go back to the weekly schedule.
There are other band members who are making it work. Speak with them *about your difficulty with learning so many songs* before causing trouble. Don’t start by finding fault with others.
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Great post
Dou you use your tablet on Sunday?
OP, does the BL have a position, yay or nay, on tablet usage?
Spot on! I mentioned the respect part in my reply a couple pages back and it's absolutely the truth. Volunteering does not mean being taken advantage of and abused for your talent and time. If you (OP) were paid I would bet that the hourly breakdown would make it below minimum wage with all of the practicing required for 11 songs. I've also experienced a former music director holding the money aspect over my head for my resistance to something that would have been extremely stressful for all to pull off with time not on our side. The money just isn't worth it sometimes, and the "leader" would learn the hard way when even the paid musician(s) start speaking up or leaving.
Thanks
I use my tablet for all worship group including Sunday. I have a backup tablet with a copy of the app and the same file. We are bass players after all, always prepared! I don't want to hijack the thread, I have posted in a few threads on how I set it up and use it. I have all my music, fakebooks, and lesson/learning books on it also. 8,000 pieces of music and fakebook lead sheets and light as a feather.
I am the only one in the group using the tablet. I'll never go back to paper or fakebooks. I have the app on my phone and could use it in a pinch, one page at a time though. You can advance half a page at a time. I have a Bluetooth foot pedal. It did take time to set it up, and get used to it all. It should work with or without bandleader support, other than providing the music sufficiently in advance. I was handed the revised Psalm on Thursday for next week and scanned it when I go home ready for next rehearsal.
There are certain type of "sheet music" ie text files or chord pro files that can be transposed on the spot. I just scan the music into pdf form and load it into MobileSheets so no transposing for me. For those without great scanners and a document management system to edit them, you can use your phone to "scan the page" remember to aim from straight about square in plenty of light so the software can make it look correct with proper proportions. And just load the songs for this week as you go.
As great of a time saver and productivity booster the tablet is, it will not make up for lack of communication and a problem WL.
As the band leader for my church, my standard formula is to prepare for each song
We used Avid Scorch for years, and still have it, for super easy transposition, but Avid discontinued it as an iOS application, and the new "Avid Sibelius" for iOS really isn't all that great to use as a document viewer. Thus the Nashville Numbers charts now.
- lead sheet (with melody + lyrics + chords) for the song in the most likely key
- same lead sheet with chord symbols printed as Nashville Numbers, for relatively easy transposition
- vocal sheet with SAT harmonization notated
- reference recording to get an idea for how the song goes
We used Avid Scorch for years, and still have it, for super easy transposition, but Avid discontinued it as an iOS application, and the new "Avid Sibelius" for iOS really isn't all that great to use as a document viewer. Thus the Nashville Numbers charts now.
The same is technically true about working for a corporation, which many of us have done. Instead of a god or gods, we serve Shareholder Value.
Shareholder Value doesn't get very happy with us if we mismanage her corporation. An example could be a manager not listening to the opinions of the technical experts among her servants. Likewise it doesn't serve her very well if a technical expert doesn't speak up when something's wrong. "Service" can take multiple forms that include managing a corporation in a more "open" or "closed" fashion. Managers can be reminded that they're not the ones who we're ultimately serving. They're servants too.
Okay, enough of my rant. Lots of us have also played in bands that are organized in the form of a bandleader and sidemen. So I don't think this is limited to religious music. In the jazz and classical worlds, it's common for players to work as sidemen before they become bandleaders. I've been a sideman for 45 years. What I've noticed is that when a bandleader is struggling in that role, it's often because they've not experienced being a sideman or developed a full palette of skills. They're often vocalists or soloists who've been "taken care of" by their sidemen, without understanding the nuts and bolts of those roles.
In the OP's case, we don't know the bandleader's background. Can they even read music or appreciate the challenge of transposing? If they have a gift for learning tunes, or are steeped in that music 24/7, they might be unaware of what's easy and what's difficult, relative to the players in the band.
I think it's probably acceptable to sit down with the BL and explain that what comes easy to them, is coming difficult to the band, and that taking a temporary break from the tsunami of creativity might allow them to build a band that ends up being stronger in the long run. Doing this will also improve the BL's skills and make it easier for them to deal with things like turnover and absences. For instance I refer to written music as a band management tool.
Perhaps a bit more detailed planning will allow the band to focus on the 4 specific songs required for the next service. I can't think of a way to do this well without knowing the tunes for each service 2 weeks in advance. If the BL needs to hear songs in order to choose a set list and keys for the next service, maybe the band could stick around after each service to figure out they layout of the next week's service.
This is a new one for me. In my old church it was common to get the four songs we'd be playing Sunday morning on Thursday night, once the pastor had finished writing his sermon. He picked the songs, and I campaigned with him for a long time to plan ahead more. Got him to do it for a month or two, then he reverted. But wasting time learning a pile of songs we wouldn't play is new.
It is true that most churches have "favorites" that keep coming back around. Churches that are plugged into the CCM media universe tend to play "greatest hits" lists from Hillsong etc. Someone in the P&W club recently shared a screenshot of Planning Center and the list was almost identical to what I was playing this week - Graves into Gardens and 10,000 Reasons etc. . But others vary - in my old church, I had the three-inch-thick binder with several hundred songs, practically a hymnal of contemporary music. And yes, some circulated back around, but only a couple of times a year.
I would suggest the way to handle this is to give the WL a choice, so that better planning is in their best interest. Tell them, "I'm sorry, I'm trying my best but I'm awfully busy and only have so much time a week to practice. If I cram eleven songs a week, I wind up learning them all really badly and I don't think I wind up playing my best Sunday morning. That's pretty stressful and not much fun and I may not keep it up much longer. If you could find a way to decide in advance which four songs to play and in what keys, and communicate that to us, I could concentrate on learning them better and I think we'd sound better on Sundays."
At that point it depends on their personality. A reasonable WL will see the problem and make changes. An egomaniac will not. Based on the response you get, you can decide whether it's worth continuing to play in this setting. If they're unwilling to adjust, you either put up with it or you walk.
It is true that most churches have "favorites" that keep coming back around. Churches that are plugged into the CCM media universe tend to play "greatest hits" lists from Hillsong etc. Someone in the P&W club recently shared a screenshot of Planning Center and the list was almost identical to what I was playing this week - Graves into Gardens and 10,000 Reasons etc. . But others vary - in my old church, I had the three-inch-thick binder with several hundred songs, practically a hymnal of contemporary music. And yes, some circulated back around, but only a couple of times a year.
I would suggest the way to handle this is to give the WL a choice, so that better planning is in their best interest. Tell them, "I'm sorry, I'm trying my best but I'm awfully busy and only have so much time a week to practice. If I cram eleven songs a week, I wind up learning them all really badly and I don't think I wind up playing my best Sunday morning. That's pretty stressful and not much fun and I may not keep it up much longer. If you could find a way to decide in advance which four songs to play and in what keys, and communicate that to us, I could concentrate on learning them better and I think we'd sound better on Sundays."
At that point it depends on their personality. A reasonable WL will see the problem and make changes. An egomaniac will not. Based on the response you get, you can decide whether it's worth continuing to play in this setting. If they're unwilling to adjust, you either put up with it or you walk.
