Double Bass How do you approach excerpt study as a whole?

[CSBBass]

Hey guys!

I tried searching, but either this hasn't been asked in the way that I mean it, or if it has, it's buried questions about auditions, specific excerpts, and so on. If you happen to know of a thread that addresses this already, please share

I find excerpts to be a little more of a difficult aspect of the rep to approach than solos. Because most auditions call for a solo of choice, or specifically Bach/concerto movement, once you have something for all of those categories you can continue to work on new solo rep that challenges you, and work through the major pieces and pieces you like more or less at your leisure, since no audition is going to call for all of the major concerti or all of the Bach suites. On the other hand, an audition very well could call for all of the hard excerpts that you may or may not have learned yet, so we try to study all of them as much as we can to be prepared--but that's a pretty large category, and a vague way to think about it.

So my question is, when you're not preparing for an audition, but rather just working on orchestral rep for the sake of learning the rep, how do or did you approach/plan learning the excerpts?

 

[PenguinsFan]

In general, it'd probably help to have specific goals. Make a list of the stuff you want to learn and come up with a time frame for learning it, being as specific as you can in all of it. Do you take private lessons? If so, ask your teacher this question.
Also, don't listen to anything you read on TalkBass.

 

[Dbass926]

The students at Curtis work through a 4 semester program Hal Robinson created called The Quad. It isn't every excerpt you could ever find on any audition but it is representative of the type of excerpts and contains the standard audition excerpt repertoire.

The principle behind The Quad is that you would go through this 4 semester program twice in your 4 year undergraduate program. While as a freshman most of the excerpts would be daunting, the second time you worked on them as a junior, you would find many of the problems solved because of your general growth.

The moral of this story? Develop a curriculum that will expose you to most of the Beethoven symphonies, the significant Mozart symphonies, Strauss tone poems, Brahms 1 and 2, orchestral solos, etc. Take into account that your journey is not just into the excerpts, but a journey that unfolds over time. You'll revisit and rebuild things many times before you get them right.

Then, if you're lucky and you've been thorough, people will consider paying you to play the bass.

 

[David Potts]

Oscar Zimmerman has published books of complete bass parts, be they Beethoven, Richard Strauss or 36 Overtures, etc. IMO these are good because you can follow the bass part as you listen on Youtube. This instantly means more than the most difficult "grabs" that are separated by double bar lines in excerpt books like the IMC series. You might still only analyse and practice the "grab" bits but you will have the context and tempos to help you. Yes, there are certain passages that are used over and over again for auditions. There is a book called Probespiel that these passages are often photocopied from.

 

[CSBBass]

Thanks for the responses everyone!

David: I find that approach pretty interesting. I remember one of Jason Heath's podcast episodes featured Alex Hanna and he talked about how that was how he learned many of the big excerpts before he went to Curtis--learning the entire piece, not just the excerpt. I have those books, though I haven't used them for that purpose as much as I probably should. Is this generally what you've done or what you have your students do to study the orchestra rep? Have you noticed it to lead to a different kind of progress in your students compared to just focusing on the "grab" excerpts?

Dbass: I've heard of The Quad before--Ranaan Meyer has the first two editions for sale somewhere--but I didn't know that was how he used them. I like that concept a lot, I think I'll explore approaching it that way. I remember not being able to find the third and fourth sets though. Do you happen to know generally what's included in those, or where I might be able to find that? If not, I can always just create my own lists in that same line of thought, but of course it'd be interesting to see what exactly Hal uses.

Penguinsfan: I agree, my main challenge has been determining what specifically those goals should be, so I always struggled with figuring out what exactly would be most beneficial for me to focus on at any given time. I do have a teacher, but his approach with the excerpts is largely based in taking the local auditions that come up when they come around, or learning the list to some of the major ones that open up, and generally the rest of it is pretty self-directed. I suppose there's merit to it and it might work better for some, but it's not an approach I'm particularly fond of at this stage in my development.

 

[David Potts]

If you think that you might confront excerpts in an audition I think that you really do need to consider at least two things. Short grabs are in excerpt books because technically they are awkward, if not hard, and you must know what speed of execution to expect. Then there is musicianship, IMO just as important or more so. Given that every person you are auditioning against may be equally or more technically proficient than you, the difference comes down to musicality and sense of style. I always tried to play excerpts with the drama and style that had the panel thinking that they are playing in the orchestra with you. Good examples of this are Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique and Beethoven's 9th Symphony recitative. This not only ensured that I played all the notes but demanded a difference in styles between excerpts and a wide range of expression and dynamics.

It is many years since my most successful audition (1970). Since then sites like IMSLP can provide complete bass parts for a lot of repertoire and Youtube has many examples of the "standard" works to compare between orchestras.
You young guys are lucky to have such tools.

 

[Andy Mopley]

"You young guys are lucky to have such tools." This reminds me of a thread I was thinking about, and that is are today's elite double bass players "better" musicians because of everything that is available to them, compared to say those 50 years ago? I am thinking that strings, for example, may have evolved a lot faster than say the instrument or the bows to make for "easier" playing??

 

[Dbass926]

Dbass: I've heard of The Quad before--Ranaan Meyer has the first two editions for sale somewhere--but I didn't know that was how he used them. I like that concept a lot, I think I'll explore approaching it that way. I remember not being able to find the third and fourth sets though. Do you happen to know generally what's included in those, or where I might be able to find that? If not, I can always just create my own lists in that same line of thought, but of course it'd be interesting to see what exactly Hal uses.

Full disclosure: I am the engraver for The Quad, and although I do the work on setting the music on the page and some of the editing, I do not have a financial stake in the sale of these books.

The first two Quads are all that are out right now. Hal and I are in the process of editing volumes 3 and 4, hoping to have them done by the summer.
Generally speaking and off the top of my head, the pieces are:
Beethoven 3, 5, 7, 9
Mozart 35, 39, 40, 41
Brahms 1, 2
Haydn 88
Mahler 2
Shostakovich 5
Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique
Strauss Don Juan, Heldenleben
Orchestra solos: Mahler 1, Lt. Kije, Otello, Young Person's Guide
Maybe a few others here and there.

 

[MikeCanada]

It seems like the question is more of a "how does one go about deciding which excerpts to study at which time?" instead of "how does one approach particular excerpts?" but both are very appropriate questions.

To address the last question first, initially slowly in order to get the notes and rhythms under your fingers and the bow. Then listening to multiple different recordings from different orchestras, time periods, etc. in order to get a taste for what the tempo and stylistic possibilities are. Generally speaking you want to be able to play as fast or faster than the fastest recording you listened to because that is within the range of possibilities that could be requested at an audition, and also any other extremes. Bowings should be largely what is printed, or what is used in common practice. Be comfortable with a range of different bowing schools of thought, such as starting the Beethoven V 3rd movement up or down for example. Know them inside out regardless to how difficult they may seem, and be able to perform them in a variety of different styles.

As for "how does one go about deciding which excerpts to study at which time?" there are a few good systems out there, but you are free to arrange them in whatever method seems best to you. One that I found very effective was to look at the seasons of various orchestras in your area that you may either freelance with or be interested in auditioning for at some point. Depending on your geographic region or how far you extend that range, you may encounter anything from 3-5 regional/semi-professional orchestras, or upwards of 25, if you consider the various professional organizations such as a symphony, opera, and ballet, but also organizations such as period or new music ensembles, smaller orchestras that may be affiliated with the suburbs for example, a university/conservatory/college you may be interested in studying at in the future, etc. When you pick which ones and how intensive you want your excerpts study to be, you follow what they have programmed, with a deadline of the performance date.

If that is an audition for an orchestra, you would prepare the required solo and all of the requested excerpts. You will be prepared to perform them all on the date of the audition (regardless to whether or not you actually audition) and then you will perform them for yourself. This could even be something you take a video of if you feel it would make you more accountable, or if it would be helpful to be able to view and assess your performance at a later period in time. If it isn't an audition, you could select the repertoire that the orchestras in your area are performing, and set their performance date as your personal deadline. I have found this particularly helpful in the past because I was a sub for a few orchestras, and I would frequently get last minute calls for dress rehearsals and concerts, so it was beneficial to already have the repertoire prepared.

There are a lot of different ways to approach it in your every day practice routine. The important thing is that you dedicate an appropriate amount of time to it, and that you give yourself some sort of timeline on what your expectations of yourself are.