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How do you approach members that overplay

#61
If you think the guys are sensible enough to listen themselves, make some easy record asking them to play with more and less details in the parts. Then compare and discuss about that.

After listening my own recorded tracks I often realize how many imprecisions and redundant/excessive elements exist in my play. Then I usually simplify a lot and the result is way better than before.

If the guys are not open to this process, consider hiring some more listening-oriented musician.
 
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#62
blubass said:
I'll preface this with a few things. This is a band that plays originals. The parts are open to interpretation from the individual members.

99% of the music is radio rock. The band was formed with the intention of recording an album and touring. It should be radio accessible (as agreed upon).

The lead guitarist and drummer both understand the direction of the band and play the parts with ease, but they never seem satisfied and are always adding something. Maybe a triplet here or there, accelerated strumming or palm-muting, or a measure of double kick where it really isn't appropriate.

Yesterday the drummer texts us, "I've been thinking of a drum fill to spice 'The Girls Got Me' up a little. Its in the middle of the double kick part. Once I get back, I'm going to test it out and hopefully have time to record it".

For me, this is the point to have a band meeting and reassess the goals and priorities of the band, as well as reaffirm what style of music we are playing.

We all have a metal background and it seems two of them have a pension to make every track as heavy as we'll collectively let them get away with.

I know how I'm going to handle it, but how would you guys approach this situation?
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Whew... Since you're already a radio-ready recording metal act, I don't believe I'd change a thing. Why mess with success?
 
#63
Members who overplay generally tend to "overtalk" as well, so I think it will take some kind of miracle to get through to them. Playing a recording back to them pointing out the overplaying will generally be taken as some kind of insult. In fact they will likely hear nothing excessive during the playback and chalk it up to unreasonable criticism on your part. All of these are attributes of the attention seeking form of narcissism.
 
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#64
Nah... Sometimes you just need to let things lie where they are, and leave well-enough alone.

Good morning.


You're welcome.

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#65
Sounds like horse before the cart.

Unless I miss read your OP, you haven't even heard what he came up with and your psychic ears already don't like it because you have some preconception. It's an original band, let him have his fun, unless you are paying him for rehearsals.

Play live and see what people think, when money starts to role in and you get to the studio have a producer there and let him/her decide if it's appropriate and it will all work out. If the producer thinks it should go it can be cut later.

More than likely with what sounds like your controlling nature, the band will break up long before it ever matters.
 
#67
There is a lot that goes into being able to give good feedback. First is your relationship with each team member. You always have to be managing that. One bit of research says you need to be giving positive to negative feedback in a ratio of 5:1 for relationships to withstand the constructive criticism when it really counts. So, how you handle this will partly depend on how much "relationship capital" you have built with the band through the ratio of positive to negative comments you have made.

This can also come from a) having funded the band, or b) having major technical/musical prowess. The other thing to consider is the bandmate's ability to take constructive criticism. Some people can't hack it, so the strategy you use is influenced by how you think they are likely to react.

If your relationship capital is low, and the person is sensitive and likely to throw a fit, then here are some soft methods I have tried.

a) Informal recordings of the band so each person can hear themself. Sometimes this highlights blighted playing and changes minds without you saying anything.

b) On one occasion, I got an expert into a band rehearsal to give us third party feedback. I did share areas I thought needed attention privately before he attended, and asked the expert to look for and comment on them if he felt they were issues. Indicated I had trouble with the band taking feedback in these areas. He did agree with one of the couple items I was concerned about. Having him there changed MY mind about what was important and what wasn't. This was a long-standing Jazz musician in our town with some real credibility among the musicians.

c) Once I posed my concerns on a discussion forum like this, and got responses from everyone about whether the problem I saw was actually a problem, and asked for advice on how to fix it. I printed off some of the better, practical answers, and read them to the band. This way the idea came from third parties. Get those third parties to share their performance history so you can cite their credibility for giving the advice -- maybe in a private message or something.

There are other strategies, but if relationship capital is high, and people take feedback well, you can just be open about your concern. Again, hopefully you have been positive about other aspects of the band so you can tell them what you think without coming across as a dictator or negative Nancy.

If they don't take the advice, you have to decide how hard to push. You want to rock the boat without sinking the ship.
 
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#68
Really the issue is putting too much on a recording. Every part should be exactly the same. Play it live any way you want, but recordings should, without regard to expense and time limits and such, be kept to the original song and phrases of the Intro's, Versus, Chorus' and bridges. Embellishments take place on stage, not in a studio unless of course you have Rolling Stones money, then who cares..
 
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#70
Overdoing parts is worse than not knowing them in my opinion. A band is a group of musicians making music as an ENSEMBLE. If a musician is only working for his ego and himself, then he should go solo and do his thing, or hire musicians and explain them what he wants to achieve, and let the hired musicians decide if they want to be a part of that.

There is nothing wrong with going solo and do your thing, as long as no one is annoyed or uncomfortable with it.
 
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#71
Good that the OP has got it worked out now. My recent cover bands rhythm guitarist had the problem of covering over every second of space in the song. Especially if it was a part where it was just bass and drums (think billie jean for example). He would double the bass all the time...he just couldnt help himself. I started trying to drop subtle hints but he didnt get it. Finally I started calling him blanket...he didnt get that either.
 
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#74
Seriously, what does it mean to "overplay"? Personally, I enjoy playing counterpoint to guitarists, keyboardists and even drummers. I have been accused of overplaying and frankly, resent it.

As a creative musician, I find playing "in the pocket" to be painfully boring and belittling to my training and experience.

Has anyone ever accused Jack Casady of overplaying?

Best,

Stevieg
 
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#76
worxforme said:
Sounds like horse before the cart.

Unless I miss read your OP, you haven't even heard what he came up with and your psychic ears already don't like it because you have some preconception.
Play live and see what people think, when money starts to role in and you get to the studio have a producer there and let him/her decide if it's appropriate and it will all work out.

More than likely with what sounds like your controlling nature, the band will break up long before it ever matters.
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This isn't the first time this had happened. In fact, this has happened with every single track so far, and the one I referenced was one that was supposedly finished awaiting recording. The double kick part he referenced was already a questionable part that we as a band decided to let stay. It's interesting you bring up being psychic, because in a short thread you've already gathered I'm controlling. I don't run this band, the singer/rhythm guitarist does. In fact, I've never been a BL, ever.

Oh, and we already resolved this last night which I posted on. What about the cart before the horse? Did you skip a few pages, sir? ;):thumbsup::)
 
#78
jd-ns said:
Sounds like the other members are leaving you in the dust. It's time for you to up your game rather than trying to dumb them down!
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Haha that's a good one. It doesn't just sound like, but is a fact you don't know what you're talking about.

This band isn't Dream Theater, but nice try with the assumptions. Game over, try again!
 

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