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How do you record a drop D or C bass line?

#21
what a pile of terrible suggestions.. pitch shift? new bass? ugh.

im a 5 string player, but some things arent played correctly unless they are dropped.

thicker strings, better touch, good ideas. but mainly.. get your bass set up for that tuning if you use it a lot. intonation, neck tension.. all that.
 
#23
sonic assassin said:
what a pile of terrible suggestions.. pitch shift? new bass? ugh.

im a 5 string player, but some things arent played correctly unless they are dropped.

thicker strings, better touch, good ideas. but mainly.. get your bass set up for that tuning if you use it a lot. intonation, neck tension.. all that.
Click to expand...

How is anything that's been said been a terrible suggestion? We're simply offering ideas of what's worked for us. For example, I know that thicker strings wouldn't work for me because I don't want to feel like I'm playing tree trunks, but I never said it would be bad to try. Maybe it'll work for crow01 and if it does, that's great! If a 5-string is what works, again... more power to him! Like many others around TB, I sure don't need much of an excuse to buy a new bass. :D lol

Also, could you clarify your comment about having to drop tune to play something correctly? I mean, the D I play on my low B string is the same pitch as the D you play on a dropped E string. :confused:

In the end, it's all about what works for us as individual players. We're simply offering advice about what we think might work/help for crow.

5sg.
 
#26
sonic assassin said:
what a pile of terrible suggestions.. pitch shift? new bass? ugh.

im a 5 string player, but some things arent played correctly unless they are dropped.

thicker strings, better touch, good ideas. but mainly.. get your bass set up for that tuning if you use it a lot. intonation, neck tension.. all that.
Click to expand...

THANK YOU! I'm glad someone's got the right idea! (pitch-shifter? you're kidding right?) :help:

If you're going to write songs that use a specific tuning then you need to have your bass set up accordingly. You can't just tune down 2 whole steps and everything is peachy. It typically requires bigger strings, changing the neck tension, setting the intonation, adjusting string height, etc.

Say what you want about drop-tuning, there's music out there that can't be played (correctly) without it. Tool is a pretty good example. And just because someone uses that tuning doesn't make them any less of a musician - that's like saying P-basses are better than Jazz basses or you only learned to play bass because you're a failed guitarist (though we all know those are true LOL J/K).
 
#27
sonic assassin said:
im a 5 string player, but some things arent played correctly unless they are dropped.

thicker strings, better touch, good ideas. but mainly.. get your bass set up for that tuning if you use it a lot. intonation, neck tension.. all that.
Click to expand...

+1 to both points

Also, could you clarify your comment about having to drop tune to play something correctly? I mean, the D I play on my low B string is the same pitch as the D you play on a dropped E string.
Click to expand...

This is true. However one could make the argument that there is a difference in tonality (not pitch) between the D on a low B string and an E string tuned to D.


But to answer your question, I'll use an illustration. Try playing Metalcore riffs that require alternate plucking/picking where every other note is the root (low C). For example:

F)----------------------
C)----------------------
G)-------5----7----8---
C)---0-0---0----0----0-

you could certainly play that on a five-string, but doing so would prove to be much more difficult.

G)---------------------
D)---------------------
A)-------3----5----6---
E)---------------------
B)---1-1---1----1----1-

Taking this into account, if one will be playing riffs styled like the one above it would make more sense to use dropped-tuning.

To the OP, +1 to using thicker strings and setting up your bass for that tuning. You should be able to set your bass for drop C and tune up when you need drop D without any problems.
 
#28
Its all you working on your technique and you bass. Recording requires better technique than playing live, because the mic' and especially a DI magnifies every little finger noise bad guitar cord, noisy pickups etc. You have to practice with a ear for these noises if you plan to record. When I first got into recording I used to practice by plugging into a tape recorder and listening with headphone. Really helped my technique.
 
#29
sonic assassin said:
im a 5 string player, but some things arent played correctly unless they are dropped.
.
Click to expand...

Yep, basic example of that is a song like Tool from sober. I tried it with the sixer, and it sounded horrible. Those who've played the song know, you need the D ringing on the bottom so you can play the middle and top D and rake across. Only sounds right in drop D.

Also had a band that whose previous bassist did a song in half step. No problem on six right? Well there was this passage where he hit the 12th fret harmonic on the G (tuned to Gb) string and let it ring out while playing some other parts. Sure it was possible to play the note in standard tuning, but since it wasn't on the 12th anymore, it never rang out the same as the recording.
 
#30
The merits of drop tunings vs. standard tunings does not belong on this topic. Get your jollies somewhere else.

On a more related note, you're also going to want to avoid a whole lot of EQ going down to tape with any sort of lowered tuning, at least on the DI track. You may know exactly what you like to hear cut and boosted on an E Std bass, but the timbre of the instrument changes dramatically when you move to a lowered tuning. Stick to flat, you can always EQ later.

After tracking some demos tuned to B Std over this past week, I'm going to say your biggest problem is going to be controlling the mud. Because of the looser strings, the fundamentals will be more prominent, so EVERYONE has a lot of low-end going on. Don't forget to run a low-pass on everything, and don't be afraid to cut bass and low mid frequencies from every stringed instrument in the mix.
 
#31
Pitch shift - you bet I'm serious. Many times it sounds better than drop tuning because you get to keep the full harmonics of the strings you're using. A tight E string has a lot of harmonics. A E string tuned to D or C is going to loose those harmonics. It's easy to hear. Modern shifters shift the harmonics as well.

Vocal wise, It's used more and more. Many live situations.
If not in all live concert situations where people pay top dollar to hear a good performance. I'm not talking about the Cher extreme shifting, I'm talk what many rock, pop, and country singers use - you wouldn't know it, but it makes for a better show.

Shifting is handy many times, Listening back to a track maybe you find it'd be better to stay on the 5th for a couple of measure then drop to the root. No need re-record the whole track or punch in, Just shift it.
 
#33
seamonkey said:
Pitch shift - you bet I'm serious. Many times it sounds better than drop tuning because you get to keep the full harmonics of the strings you're using. A tight E string has a lot of harmonics. A E string tuned to D or C is going to loose those harmonics. It's easy to hear. Modern shifters shift the harmonics as well.

Vocal wise, It's used more and more. Many live situations.
If not in all live concert situations where people pay top dollar to hear a good performance. I'm not talking about the Cher extreme shifting, I'm talk what many rock, pop, and country singers use - you wouldn't know it, but it makes for a better show.

Shifting is handy many times, Listening back to a track maybe you find it'd be better to stay on the 5th for a couple of measure then drop to the root. No need re-record the whole track or punch in, Just shift it.
Click to expand...

im well aware of the vocal raping going on in live shows these days and it makes me sick. not just t-pain.. im well aware.

first of all.. i dont think anyone should pay more than 20 dollars for a concert ticket EVER. unless there is a lot of expensive theatrics going on (kiss and the like), i cant justify paying that, and no one else should have to. i go to see and hear music... not be dazzled with fire and lights.. but thats coming from a musician with entirely too much integrity.. compared to some sheep of a normal concert goer.

if you cant perform live.. DONT. cant pull it off anymore, change the tuning or hang it up. elton john tamed a lot of his songs down.. still sounds pretty good.

better show? thats subjective. i like performers that are human. if everything is quantized and tuned to perfection, theres no life in it.

your approach is exactly the problem i have with modern day musicians. "oh dont worry.. we can tune it". what happened to being proficient at your instrument? you dont want to spend 20 dollars on a new set of strings and a neck adjustment.. you'd rather just tune it. dont want to work on your feel and string control.. just tune it. you dont want to rerecord the line correctly.. tune it. how long does it honestly take to punch in a part? about as long as it does to fire up melodyne, scan and correct the song.

**** modern pop music and all it stands for. learn to play your instrument. if you want to sing, get good at it and stay good at it. otherwise, dont bother calling yourself a musician.
 
#34
fivestringgecko said:
Also, could you clarify your comment about having to drop tune to play something correctly? I mean, the D I play on my low B string is the same pitch as the D you play on a dropped E string. :confused:
Click to expand...

my normal example is "testify" by rage against the machine. timmy c is not afraid of 5 strings.. he played them for a few years before deciding to switch to baritone. the song is recorded in drop D. yes, it can be played in standard on a 5. it becomes awkward and loses all of its groove in the process. all of the grace notes are harder to get to, and its all around bad news. get a hipshot tuner (or tune by ear like someone who isnt ********) and go about your business.

another example.. listen to a song called "the horse" by a wilhelm scream. some of it could be played in standard. quarter notes at 200 bpm on a low B string.. possible. im fairly certain that large chunks of the song are just entirely too fast to be fumbling around on another string.

i hate down tuning a bass. if at all possible i will avoid it. but sometimes you just have to. if you play blues and oldies and other slow boring ****, cool, you can make it on a 5 string. but anything with a decent amount of speed or difficulty played in drop likely has to stay there.

and like others have said.. cover songs with a flat harmonic or slammed open D note.. not possible in standard.
 
#35
Observation: there's an awful lot of prejudice expressed in the thread, from many directions. Not everyone, but you know who I'm talking about.

I saw the subject line and expected to read advice on recording (very) low-frequency instruments. Okay, I didn't get what I expected, that doesn't bother me, but couldn't we all (and not just some) express opinions in a way that isn't designed to inflame ?

My 2 pen'oth (yes, I'm from that side of the atlantic) ...

1) Isn't it end results that matter at the end of the day ? Pitch-shifting is a technical advance. Bass guitars were (in many ways) a technical advance over double bass. Is one of these 'wrong' and the other 'right'. Of course not. Different things work in different contexts and the only thing that matters (IMHO) is the perception of the end result, end even that is going to vary from person to person.

2) I'm not going to tell you whether I use drop D or a 5-string, but it should be pretty obvious from the preceding discussion that (again) different things will work in different contexts and (again IMHO) the only important thing is end results. And I think the OP now has some constructive comment to enable him to go in one of several directions.

Andy
 
#36
sorry if some feel i have derailed this thread with my cold hatred for pitch correction software in any context. my stance is coming from a musician with integrity and a strong belief in being and honest representation of ones skills.

they can change the instrument as much as they want, so long as it is played by a human and not a computer. too many over-tuned, over-quantized "musicians" flood the market and those of us with talent get pushed aside. mingus could shred a DB. jaco destroyed the EB. jamerson invented the groove. cliff williams is the model example of a rock bassist. joe blow and his laptop should not be held in the same regard.

i do not mean to be combative, i just have very strong convictions. sorry if i upset anyone. my prior posts were much more informative, if you're looking for my suggestions, they are earlier in the thread.
 
#38
are you asking about recording it or just about making it sound good in general?
one kind of goes with the other i would have thought.

basicaly, yeah, find a way to make the tension suit you better like people have sujested.
thicker strings/longer scale.

recording wise there'd a lot more options and it's more about the soun you're after..

..personaly i'm all about tonnes of compression :)
 
#39
sonic assassin said:
oh.. and +1 million on this.

some slightly different EQ'ing may need to be done to compensate for lack of string tension. sub lows are now even lower and need to be kept in check. low C is approx 33-34ish hz? thats mud city if not properly handled. might have a little bit of low mid sag as well (think sabbath).
Click to expand...

Really? I thought mud was in the higher bass frequencies and very low midrange? So it's just nasty harmonics of low nots not the actual fundamental that causes muddyness. There's plenty of floor rattling bassy sounds that have plenty of sub and are still tight as anything, if you don't have much fundamental then what's the point in having a low B or C or whatever?

Anyway just get some thicker strings already :p there's plenty of people that do drop tuning sets nowadays, I'm gonna be getting a few singles for when I go in the studio when I'm doing drop D in a couple of our songs, live I'll have to put up with the floppiness obviously but in the studio at least I can counter it.

If I could be arsed re-tabbing everything I'd happily go BEAD cos I hardly ever use my G and when we play drop D it's not really for dropped riffs or anything, but my current rig can barely put up with a low E nevermind B at the moment.
 
#40
I can highly recommend the rotosound Billy Sheehan strings if you regularly switch between standard and drop D. Similar to a set of medium gauge .45's but with a slightyly lighter G string (.43) and a heavier E string (.110). Nice and fat in standard tuning and still feels really good when I flip the hipshot down to D.
 

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