How do you think about music?

[dab12ax7ef]

It’s always better to know theory and how to read than not to. It helps with communication and understanding and analyzing song. I don’t get people saying knowing theory makes them less creative.

After knowing some theory, it’s easy to pick out players who don’t know theory. When they play things outside of the key unknowingly.

 

[Kro]

After knowing some theory, it’s easy to pick out players who don’t know theory. When they play things outside of the key unknowingly.

That's just jazz, baby.

 

[lfmn16]

STOP - Please STOP, presenting the concept or notion that a player’s “feel” is somehow in opposition to their knowledge.

You can have both.

I wish I could like this post more than once.

IGNORANCE DOES NOT ENHANCE YOUR PLAYING!!!!

 

[Love_Bass]

If you want to learn theory just go ahead and learn it.. why is consensus so important?
I could post how i really feel about this topic but someone will quote me and probably bash it..

 

[MVE]

Hey everybody,
I'm curious to see how many people are theory nuts vs how many people don't do theory and how many people fall somewhere in between.

I'm studying music in college, so studying theory is a big part of that. I think pretty technically most of the time so improvisation is rarely a guessing game, but I've been using theory long enough that I don't have to think about every decision. Usually I can hear what I want to play before I play it, so I just let it flow.

I will say though that sometimes I can get really thrown off by non-diatonic music. In those cases I basically just think of the changes as being key changes.

Im no pro, but I stick to chord tones unless Im not, and when Im not, its “feel”. Im never thinking, “hmmmn, maybe lets slide from a M7 7th on the (4-And) to start the root of an m7 on the 1”

Its more like “da-doom doom doom doom”

 

[Kipp Harrington]

I was introduced to theory so long ago (40+ years ago) that I don't recall the difficulty. In my senior year of HS, I recall that we started with the circle of 5ths and then we taught Nashville numbering. Then the instructor had us analyzing Beethoven's 5th, so it must not have taken too long to grasp some basic understanding. We explored a lot of other musical concepts besides traditional theory, like chord inversions and harmonics - we even built a harpsichord, so we couldn't have spent too much time grinding on the basics. I'm sure there was a hurdle to get "into the game", but once you find your "aha" moment, it becomes quite logical and can even be fun.

Theory just explains why certain progressions/chords feel good (why we as humans enjoy the resolution from V to 1 for example) and certain progressions are uncomfortable and why good music benefits from creating harmonic conflict (dissonance) and then resolving that conflict in our ears. You probably already instinctively understand some theory without realizing it: Root 5 works in a lot of songs - there's a theoretical reason for that.

I think working with a teacher or even another musician who gets basic theory will help you get past the initial speed bumps. Once you "get it", you can carry on using books and other resources to continue your understanding. Don't give up! You'll thank yourself later....

Thanks mrcbass. I may delve into it again at some point. It's just a matter of applying myself and sticking with it. Right now I don't have a lot of "free" time, so I would rather spend it playing rather than researching and attempting to understand a new "language".

 

[Kro]

Im never thinking, “hmmmn, maybe lets slide from a M7 7th on the (4-And) to start the root of an m7 on the 1”

Its more like “da-doom doom doom doom”

Very well said.

 

[markjazzbassist]

all feel no theory. i learned by playing along to records and improvising with them and playing in bands. i barely even know the names to each note on the fretboard without needing a good think.

i realize i will be in the minority here.

 

[simalex]

I start w feel , but then want to know the “why” behind the feel.

 

[LBS-bass]

Hmmmm.... theory is helpful. "Feel" is helpful. But neither is a substitute for a good ear, and that's not even being mentioned in the poll or in the responses I've read so far.

A good ear will tie theory and feel together.

 

[micguy]

People made music for thousands of years before folks came along and tried to explain why some things sounded better than others. In the pursuit of that explanation, they invented "music theory". It's not at all like scientific theory, where theory nowadays typically comes before practice. Einstein predicted things about the universe and how things work 100 years ago that we're finally proving are right. Music theory is the other way 'round - practice was here long before people came up with explanations for what was going on.

I you're going to be working with thermonuclear devices or power line electrical devices, having a grasp of the theory behind how those work is a REALLY good idea before you try anything - to avoid blowing yourself and others in your vicinity to smithereens.

If you want to make pleasing noises, you can (and probably should) do at least some of it without learning the "theory" first - there is no danger of a bad note killing anyone, or destroying your town. Staring with learning theory before you've had any fun playing music is a recipe for boredom - "why am I learning this???". If, however, you want to play jazz, then you will, at some point benefit greatly from learning music theory.

I'm odd, in that, in studying Acoustical Physics, I understand the math and science behind what sounds good, which is the real scientific theory underlying parts of "music theory" - I know why double stops of certain intervals sound good high on the neck of a bass, but not lower on the neck. I also know how and when to use those in a musical context - I have a good grasp of everything surrounding music theory (above and below it), but not as much detail in the middle realm as the kids that went to music school. I also have studied some psychoacoustics - the science behind why we hear what we hear. In my work designing pro audio gear, that's often really helpful.

Theory is optional in a lot of circles, but heavily recommended in others. Musical and/or otherwise.

 

[JimmyM]

Work on theory until theory becomes feel. Work on feel until feel becomes theory. Yin and Yang.

Yep, why do these discussions always have to degenerate into an either/or thing? It's possible to have it all, and that's always been my approach.

 

[MVE]

Hmmmm.... theory is helpful. "Feel" is helpful. But neither is a substitute for a good ear, and that's not even being mentioned in the poll or in the responses I've read so far.

A good ear will tie theory and feel together.

I wish I had one....
My ear does all sorts of wacky things. Like, I have no problem identifying a M from a m, unless the m is the 2nd of the scale and you just played the 1M. IOW, if you played a CM7 followed by a Dm7, I have problems identifying the Dm as minor because it is part of overall sound of the Major scale of the chord that was played just before it.
Its a good thing, I know enough about all of it to analyze and understand what Im actually hearing and enough theory to know if The key is C Maj then the D is probably going to be minor, the G is Dom and the B is dim, etc.
...and don’t even get me started on using my ear to hear the difference between an Am7 and a CM6/A.

 

[crazyBassClown]

At the risk of getting yelled down here, I'm going to give my opinion.
How do people learn to speak their native tongue? Are they taught about nouns, verbs, sentence structure and other language theory, or do they simply listen to and then attempt to speak it?
Following on from that what is the best way to learna second language? Formal study into nouns, verbs etc, or going to a foreign country and being forced to listen to and speak the language constantly? From what I gather the latter is far more effective than formal classroom lessons.
So what is the best way to learn music? Learn about scales, modes, borrowed chords and whatever else, or do what hendrix did and listen to people speak the language fluently and then try to speak it yourself?

The real problem is the immerse yourself and have a go model is completely untestable and unmarkable in a formal setting so formal "education" simply cannot use it whether it is more effective or not.
Should some people study high level music theory, absolutely, in the same way some people study high level language theory. Do people need to know it to be able to converse fluently, absolutely not.

I guees it at least partly depends on where you set the line for "knowing theory". Is knowing the note names and how to create chords knowing theory? At that point almost anyone who can play an instrument knows theory.

 

[JimmyM]

I wish I had one....
My ear does all sorts of wacky things. Like, I have no problem identifying a M from a m, unless the m is the 2nd of the scale and you just played the 1M. IOW, if you played a CM7 followed by a Dm7, I have problems identifying the Dm as minor because it is part of overall sound of the Major scale of the chord that was played just before it.

But now that you know that, you can remember it when it comes up, and you will get better at it.

Its a good thing, I know enough about all of it to analyze and understand what Im actually hearing and enough theory to know if The key is C Maj then the D is probably going to be minor, the G is Dom and the B is dim, etc.
...and don’t even get me started on using my ear to hear the difference between an Am7 and a CM6/A.

Distinction without a difference.

 

[DirtDog]

Informed by theory, driven by ear.

Let’s put it this way, if my only gateway into musicianship was through theory, I likely would not be a musician today. I believe my innate “ear” for certain instruments allowed me to start playing. Theory has helped me understand my instrument and how to play better.

 

[el murdoque]

Hey everybody,
I'm curious to see how many people are theory nuts vs how many people don't do theory and how many people fall somewhere in between.

I'm studying music in college, so studying theory is a big part of that. I think pretty technically most of the time so improvisation is rarely a guessing game, but I've been using theory long enough that I don't have to think about every decision. Usually I can hear what I want to play before I play it, so I just let it flow.

I will say though that sometimes I can get really thrown off by non-diatonic music. In those cases I basically just think of the changes as being key changes.

I'd like to argue that everyone uses theory before playing a note. That can be formal education in music theory, but than can also be the self formulated theory that came naturally while learning to play.
When the Guitar plays a G, I won't play an F#. That can either be because of my formal education I know exactly when those two notes match and when they do not and I am able to identify this as one of the many cases where they do not sit well together -- or it can be because me hand slipped couple times and play F# when guitar play G and it sound real bad - and me brain 'membered that.
What happens is actually the same thing.
We are presented with a chord and play a note we of which we know it will work before we play it.
Our main processor uses memory to plot a course over the fingerboard.

 

[DrayMiles]

Play with an emphasis on feel but practice and learn theory obsessively away from the gig. OBSESSIVELY!
Then don’t play what you have learned unless you hear it in context in a musical way. Don’t force it... If you hear it before you play it AND it’s musical, then awlrightee then!

 

[Kro]

That can be formal education in music theory, but than can also be the self formulated theory that came naturally while learning to play.

I agree with this. I was just thinking earlier today about the first time that 3 year old (or younger) me sat down at a piano, and plunked out a major third and figured out how nice it sounded - or similarly the first time I hammered a minor second! Ew!

The basis for everything I do musically can probably be traced back to those very first theory lessons.

 

[JRA]

the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. gestalten.