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How does a well built DIY 112 cab compare?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by matti777, Oct 19, 2019.


  1. matti777

    matti777 Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 2007
    Edmonton, Canada
    I've been mulling over a new 1 x 12 cab purchase. I'll probably order a Hathor 1203 but delivery time is long. In the meantime, just for fun, I was thinking about building a single driver tweeterless Deltalite 2512 II cab based on the Eminence design. How will this compare with the higher end 'off the shelf' cabs such as an Aguilar DB112 or Bergantino Reference 112 or such? Will it be in the same ballpark or are cabs like this with custom drivers (I assume) better engineered?
     
    BassikBrad likes this.
  2. Redbrangus

    Redbrangus Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2018
    Under The X In Texas
    I don't know that much about the boutique stuff, and I've got no use for a tweeter or horn in a bass box, so my opinion is what it is, but I'd say 'in the ballpark', especially if you weight the evaluation for cost vs value...Edit: I should have said cost vs performance. Which is value.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
    matti777 and funkinbottom like this.
  3. matti777

    matti777 Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 2007
    Edmonton, Canada
    Yeah I've never needed a tweet either. For a simple design with no crossover the cost is less than half for materials.
     
    dramatwist and funkinbottom like this.
  4. BogeyBass

    BogeyBass

    Sep 14, 2010
    well if you ask the manufacture of course they are better. lol

    all comes down to the driver and what it really does or with them what it really is.
    for the most part it can be better if not exactly the same
    depends on the actual driver being used by the manufacture. and how far you wanna play in on the
    " special" part
    some of them are quit literally using kappalites or deltalites some from other manufactures.
    all do about the same 5mm. or jump up to a larger magnet and get 6mm

    Response of the Deltalite 2512 is darn good its a 5mm driver so it takes good amount of power
    pretty much does the same thing higher performance 15" drivers did. now you can fit them in smaller boxes

    The 3012 HO is the example of the next step up. it is a 6mm driver and has a larger voicecoil and magnet.
    so it handles power very well and they maintain sensitivity with the larger magnet to make that 6mm work

    so again that little extra gap gives you pretty much a smaller box than old school 1x15 or 2x15 and quite literally will take more power

    so in a quick wrap up here, they sound good...dam good. and you dont need tweets or mids or any other bullcrap.
    2 wires to the speaker and done.

    the cast frame drivers are nice Fs stays low in the 44hz range. and aside from all the dingle smingle magic speakers boxes.
    you quite literally put them in 2 to 2.4 cubic feet. tune to 44/45 hz and call it a day. they sound good
    far as i know thats what eminence recommends for a larger box or atleast should recommend. no high tuned dinky winky boxes.
    just make it a nice size box and tune to Fs

    really the only downfall to DIY is it depends on your finish skills so it doesnt look like a typical freaking ugly homemade box. otherwise as long as the cab dont rattle the speaker does what the speaker does
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
    dfp, thetragichero, matti777 and 2 others like this.
  5. Blues Bass 2

    Blues Bass 2 Supporting Member

    Oct 3, 2001
    Davenport Iowa
    I built this to Eminence specs and it kills . Big controlled low end and great mids . The tweeter is and APT 80 and is crossed at 5000 Hz so it doesn't affect the tone a ton and the Deltalite 2512 II speakers go pretty high anyway . I don't think it will keep up with the Kappalite based speakers in volume but it gets plenty loud for what I wanted and the tone is very good . Fdeck built a 112 cab with the Deltalite 2512 II and has plans on his website . S7300742.JPG
     
    herndonbassist, klokker, xbud and 8 others like this.
  6. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
    In my view custom drivers allow the engineer to tailor the speaker to have exactly the performance they want to achieve, which includes tone quality, size, weight, and yes, economics. With a DIY speaker, "you get what you get," once you've committed to a particular driver, and you have to design around it to get as close as you can to your desired sound. Also, you might end up wasting money if you buy more driver than you need for a particular use.

    For some players, close enough is close enough, in which case we end up with a nice speaker by building our own. Building one of the published designs is kind of like "P bass with flats," where you'll get a decent generic sound, but one that a lot of players would be perfectly happy with.
     
    AstroSonic, Giraffe and matti777 like this.
  7. Redbrangus

    Redbrangus Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2018
    Under The X In Texas
    I suspect you might be overestimating just how 'custom' the engineering is for OEM products.
     
    matti777 likes this.
  8. basscooker

    basscooker Commercial User

    Apr 11, 2010
    cincy ky
    Owner, ChopShopAmps
    For the NEW price of a mid-level cab; if you have good woodworking skills and tools already, you can usually do as well or better than what most of the big brands offer. You need to either follow a proven design or use software to model your own, though.

    If you need much in the way of tools to complete a project, or dont have decent kung fu with bulding from wood, IMO either expect less-than-stellar results or just buy a cab.

    If you're really good with building, have a shop, and are willing to prototype first and take a loss (or two), a few hundred bucks can get you a better-performing cab than what that same money can buy you in a manufactured product new.

    Most entry-level cabs are actually more reliant on the design than the driver itself. The off-the-shelf Eminence and Faital drivers are typically better drivers than the low-end lines use. Following suggested box designs for these drivers, you probably will get better results than an inexpensive big-brand offering.

    Dont expect to save a significant amount of money though, once you add up the little details. You're paying retail prices for the small stuff; and it really adds up... Handles, corner protection, connectors, connector plates, grill material, finishing material, feet, and the fasteners to put all that stuff on can add 50 or (probably) more bucks to the cost of the drivers and wood. That still doesnt account for your time, adhesive, sand paper, consumables like shop rags, drill bits and saw blades, waste like wood scrap, wood fill that you sand off, stripped screws or solder blobs, overspray or cut waste when you tolex, on and on.

    I absolutely encourage anyone who is a tinkerer by nature to just dive in and go for it, though my words above may hint towards discouragement. Just understand rolling your own is not a way to save money; if that's the goal, just shop used and be ready to pull the trigger on a hot deal.

    Good luck!
     
  9. chadds

    chadds

    Mar 18, 2000
    I like buying used then the flipping becomes rental. For me that may mean 30 years, not the TB 30 min average. :):)
     
    xbud, matti777 and dkelley like this.
  10. MrLenny1

    MrLenny1

    Jan 17, 2009
    N.H.
    Unless you have good cab building skills the finished
    product won't have much re-sale value witha pricey speaker inside.
     
  11. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    There's a cool DIY 112 thread on Basschat.uk.
     
    matti777 likes this.
  12. nilorius

    nilorius

    Oct 27, 2016
    Riga - Latvia
    Check out Hartke Hydrive HD112
     
    herndonbassist and matti777 like this.
  13. REV

    REV

    Jun 18, 2006
    There's always a fEARful 12/6
     
  14. buying used is a better deal than DIY, typically.

    DIY gives you control, if you know what you're doing. building a good cab is neither rocket science nor simplistic. you must make it solid so it doesn't vibrate/shake, effectively air tight, have proper connection panel and, optionally, a crossover (surprisingly pricey), probably include some internal bracing (which is surprisingly challenging to get just right without planning carefully). And then try to make it light weight?

    my traynor tc112 does all that, it's brilliantly well made and is super light. I couldn't possibly build the same thing without spending as much money as I paid used, and the build woudl take days of full time work, and space I don't have, and it wouldn't look as good and would have zero resale value other than the deltalite driver I put in it.

    So it just depends on your desire, need for customization versus what you can buy off the shelf, budget, time, and desire for resale.
     
    edencab and matti777 like this.
  15. BogeyBass

    BogeyBass

    Sep 14, 2010
    Yeah kinda..not really the 8mm to 11mm ish drivers are cool. but still muddy sensitivity still drops. down to 94/96 ish dB


    thats amazing part of neo. getting 6mm with ceramic be a huge huge magnet. likewise the bandwith or highend still might drop.

    they got these 6mm driver now with great mids and highs and they hold 98ish dB and not muddy.
    its just perfect really. and not impossible to do with ceramic but easier and off the shelf with neo
    2 wires and ....done
     
  16. JimChjones

    JimChjones

    Aug 6, 2017
    SE England
    I think its fair comment that buying used will probably be cheaper than building DIY. If there's no significant used market where you live, or you want something highly specialised that just isn't available mainstream it may be a valid choice though.

    The other observation is even once you have the base design and a functional cabinet, there still ought to be a fair amount of R&D in tuning port length, internal damping and unless you have the facilities for that you are either looking at a sub optimal cabinet or a lot more expense.
     
    dkelley likes this.
  17. Redbrangus

    Redbrangus Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2018
    Under The X In Texas
    Once again, TB'ers respond with many, many responses that are in no way responsive to the OP's question. Good show!
     
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  18. matti777

    matti777 Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 2007
    Edmonton, Canada
    Thanks guys. I appreciate all the input. Yeah it would be nice if someone had A/B'd an Aguilar or Bergantino cab against there 2512 or 3012 build but that might be asking too much. I did demo a new Berg HDN210 for $1200 and it was fine but nothing I had to take home with me so it got me thinking. I'll have to price the build out and think about how much work it will be sans finishing cosmetics.
    • I've got a Fearful 15/6 which I bought used. Its a little too much for what I need and a little too tall but a great cab. Something smaller thats what I call modern vintage sounding would be ideal (extended lows and highs not required).
    • Buying used is tough up here and by the time I pay exchange and shipping from the US or even down east it doesn't make sense.
    • No Hartke up here
    • I have checked out the Basschat build and Winisp and such. Following an existing design should take most of the experimentation out of it. One of the reasons I like the AK Hathor 1203 design is because you can easily change its tune. Some of that could be incorporated into a DIY build.
    • I did look at the 3012HO. I think it costs the same as the 2512. For some reason I thought it had a narrower range but maybe not.
    • Yeah resale won't be good but then again the used market isn't hot for much these days
     
    Redbrangus and chadds like this.
  19. chadds

    chadds

    Mar 18, 2000
    Only thing we didn’t ask is if he’s an experienced cab builder.

    Besides that the advice was sound.

    An OP question: I need a new head and cab because it’s farting out.
    TB answer A: Get the new Zneg 1000w and Gepma cab 8x10.
    TB answer B: How high is your bass eq.? Oh at 80%? Dial that back, boost some mids and you should be fine.

    Hmmmmmm. :)
     
    dkelley likes this.
  20. singlemalt

    singlemalt Supporting Member

    Dec 15, 2007
    White Salmon, WA
    Build a proven design and DIY will stack up against name brand just fine. That’s the short version.

    I’ve built TL606’s with 3/4 shop ply left over from other jobs. Plywood is not a big part of the expenses. Most money goes towards the driver and the hardware.

    Duratex is your friend, buy a quart and a rough texture roller.

    I DIY because I love an excuse to clean the garage, tune up the tools, crank some tunes and build something just for fun.

    Since you’ve already dipped a toe into fEarful territory, I’d build a 12/6 cube. My 12/6 cube replaced the 15/6/1’s. The last build was a second 12/6 cube. Not that I needed it, but just for fun. I found the drivers and crossover in the TB classifieds for $250. Total cost was right at $300.
     

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