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how loud is loud?

#21

Well it seems some people can't adapt to my style of posting. As for English, well i happen to be studying the hardest possible english subjects at school and am top of the class, so i don't know where such a comment was generated.

As for 4 yrs till i'm an adult?? hell I'm 17 and got 7 months till i'm 18. Thats a legal adult in australia. Plus I may be legally an Adult at 18 but mentally, well, we're bass players so....... lol
biggrin.gif
Especially John Turner.. hehe yes i'll come back to off topic just for your Conklins. lol
wink.gif
)

I also happen to have 2 years in electronics so and am aiming towards an audio speciality so i have every right to be here.

I'm a goat heh? About bloody time, being a satanist, the goat plays a very important role in such a religion so I thankyou. So please pop over to Off Topic and see how welcomed I am in there, I doubt you will stand much of a chance because we all act slightly right wing. People just need to get used to me, the posters in Off Topic would agree, I'm a new breed and I aint going away!

Kind Regards
Merlin

------------------
Del: ahh Woodstock, now that was a show.
Garth: wow, you were at woodstock?
Wayne:alright man, party on.What was it like?
Del: Well it rained all morning and cleared up in the afternoon. I nearly remembered something else then....."
 
#22
Chris,

In order to have a real scientific experiment, you have to make everything but what you are comparing equal. So, if we were comparing amps, the speaker efficiency would have to be the same (as would the ohmic value). That being said, if you had two 100 watt amps, and one was a high current/low voltage amp, and the other was a high voltage, low current amp, then the high current/low voltage amp would have a larger magnetic force then the high voltage, low current amplifier. It would be louder.

Next--Merlin: Matthias got pissed off at you for the same reason that everyone else did--you had no reason to insult another member of this board. By the way--neither number of years in schooling, or the difficulty of the classes you're taking determines your maturity level. The way you act does.

Hope I didn't piss anyone off.

Woof-Man Out
 
#23
Well actually it wasn't me who got pissed off at merlin.

BTW I have a problem: Is there anything written between the lines of merlin's 'who cares' post that I don't get (due to my not so good english)?
Why is everyone mad at him? Is it because of things he stated in other posts?
And what the heck does all this crap in his last post mean? Being satanist is nonsense IMHO - hope I don't get any voodoo spell for that
biggrin.gif

Sorry, that's off-topic. I suggest to discuss the loudness and electronics topic again and stop this nonsense.

Matthias


[This message has been edited by Matthias (edited July 28, 2000).]
 
#24
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dancehallclasher:
when i say "pkr2" real fast, it sounds like pikachu. you know, the mouse-type-creature in that pokemon show. is that intentional? i mean, you are talking a lot about electricity and that mouse has some sort of electric powers. i bet you're wondering right about now if i have anything worthwhile to add to this thread, and i don't, but i was thinking, "this thread needs a small break in the tedium of technical jargon" so here you go.

i am learning a lot, by the way, so i hope i don't sound unappreciative.
biggrin.gif


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dancehallclasher: No, I chose the name because my first choice of names, when I registered on T.B. was already being used. I'm probably the only person in the world who knows zilch about Pokemon.

No, you don't sound unappreciative. All civil responses are welcome.
 
#25
Geezzz, Merlin. I don't know how you did it. You keeped your cool. Man! This guy pisses at you yet you reply pollitely. If everyone here only had half your ability to take a slandering like that.....

As for pkr2: the hell this is YOUR thread! It's a world wide forum for God's sake (or as Merlin would have put it: for the Devil's sake)....... Maybe it needs to be explained to you that you don't get personal on this site! Take on a fight through E-mail.

There's my small change worth $0.02. Slay me!


[This message has been edited by Joris (edited July 28, 2000).]
 
#26
And you know what? I beginning to think you're an alias of Psycho Bass Guy. You guys should meet!

And you know something else? In the process of all this, I made the same mistake you did. I got personal. SORRY.

------------------
I play really bad. I'm just a guy with a lotta stuff.

[This message has been edited by Joris (edited July 28, 2000).]
 
#27
Woof wrote:

"In order to have a real scientific experiment, you have to make everything but what you are comparing equal. So, if we were comparing amps, the speaker efficiency would have to be the same (as would the ohmic value). That being said, if you had two 100 watt amps, and one was a high current/low voltage amp, and the other was a high voltage, low current amp, then the high current/low voltage amp would have a larger magnetic force then the high voltage, low current amplifier. It would be louder."

Agreed on the changing of one parameter only to be scientific. Here's the rub: The two equal power amps you speak of are designed, by your description, to operate into different impedances. V=I*R and P=I*V, so if both are to put out equal power, the high voltage-low current amp would have to operate into a larger impedance, and the low voltage-high current amp would have to operate into a lower impedance.

Numbers:

16 Ohm speaker, 100 Watts
P=V^2/R, so 100=V^2/16 V^2=1600, V=40, I=2.5Amps

2 Ohm speaker, 100 Watts
P=V^2/R, so 100=V^2/2 V^2=200, V=14.14, I=7.07Amps

Basically what I'm trying to say, is that an amp produces a voltage, and the amount of current that flows into the load is mainly determined by the impedance of the load, not the amp. Amps do have varying "output impedances", and these are in the neighborhood of .01 Ohm to a few Ohms, and this is entirely different from the "nominal impedance".

So if the speaker impedance is the same, and both amps are putting out 100 Watts into that speaker, regardless of whether one is high or low current, they are both putting out the same amount of voltage and current, and the same amount of volume, unless one of the signals has more distortion, then it will sound louder due to more harmonic frequencies being present.

Chris

[This message has been edited by throbbinnut (edited July 28, 2000).]
 
#28
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Matthias:
Frog!
What's your problem with Merlin?
Was an answer like this really necessary?
I can see a good argumet in Merlin's post: What counts is the result - is the amp powerful enough for the intended use or not?
It's not bad to have a little background knowledge, especially being aware of different measuring methods, as Winston said, and some 'laws' of acoustic.
But hardly any bass player is an electronics expert.

And what I don't like at all is your statement regarding good English and intelligence: Not everyone here (including me) is speaking English as his first language. (Merlin is Australian, so I guess he does, but that's another thing).

Keep cool man,
Matthias

Theory is when you know everything, but nothing works.
Practice is when everything works, but you don't know why.
We are combining both: Nothing works and we don't know why...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"What's your problem with Merlin?"
I don't have a problem with Merlin. I do have a problem with anyone who responds to a post in a caustic or illiterate manner just to get attention. Am I the only one who noticed the difference in the clarity of Merlins second post in this thread compared to his first post? It's one thing when a poster does his best to communicate clearly. It's another thing when a poster intentionally butchers the language and expects everyone else to interpret what they are trying to say.

"But hardly any bass player is an electronics expert."
We don't quite see eye to eye on this one. I consider Chris, Psyco and Joris experts by every definition of the word. I consider myself to be reasonably knowledgable but not an expert. As such I can learn a lot from these guys. On the other hand, I could disrupt all of thier very helpful threads by posting exactly as Merlin did and everyone loses.


"And what I don't like at all is your statement regarding good English and intelligence: "

If a person is perfectly capable of using the language properly and refuses to do so then that person doesn't need me to point out thier intellegence level- it's quite obvious.

"Theory is when you know everything, but nothing works.
Practice is when everything works, but you don't know why."

I love that. Can I steal it?
smile.gif



By the way, O.K. I'll try to be cooler.
smile.gif


Frog
 
#31

Hey Thanx Woof. I just want everyone to know, that the way i post is the way i am in real life. If someone asked me a question at school "How loud is Loud?" I would still answer it exactly the same way. I think people have read into such posts too much, we need some humour in this thread!
wink.gif


For the record, if it makes you feel better i don't mind slander. If we as humans can't laugh at ourselves, then we shouldn't exist. I think the best way to get someone back for insulting me is to post the way i did second time round. To cuss back puts one at the same low level as the person who insulted you.

Cheers
Merlin

------------------
Del: ahh Woodstock, now that was a show.
Garth: wow, you were at woodstock?
Wayne:alright man, party on.What was it like?
Del: Well it rained all morning and cleared up in the afternoon. I nearly remembered something else then....."
 
#32
OK.
My suggestion:

As we see, there are different approaches to this topic - call it theoretical and practical if you like. Both are right, both are important. No need to badmouth one or the other side.
Why not accept each other and learn from each other?
Let tech experts do their expert talk and try to learn from it.
Let 'non-experts' remind you/us of the simple questions and answers of a bassist's life.

Amen.

Matthias
 
#33
Why can't we get someone to compare amps using a decible meter with one test on the 5 setting and one on the 10 setting with the EQs flat at say 50ft.

Isn't it more decibles and a clean tone what we all want?(well, most of us anyway)

Wouldn't it be great if manufactureres gave us these specs along with the other useless information?

Such as:
Ampeg SVTXXX rated at 90db at 50ft at mid setting
Hartke XXXX rated at 95db at 50 ft at mid setting
etc.

Then we could just compare the tone and pick the one we like.

And wouldn't it be great if everything in the world was just the way we wanted it?
smile.gif

 
#34
LOL.This thread is almost comical.You guys do know alot more than me about all this stuff.More than I care to know but I still respect your knowledge so I hope you dont think Im flaming you.I power read through all the posts and I guess its just over my head.I couldnt see where it was going.
I do know this though.I know what sounds good and I want a powerful amp that sounds good.I like to turn it up loud so I can play with a very light touch,have a great tone and dynamics and not worry about clipping.I just bought an Aguilar 728 and 680.That thing is BAD(as in good :-))
 
#35
i really agree with you guys here, loud is in the ear of the beholder. ex: my crate bx100(an ok combo, even better at only $290) shakes the walls turned halfway up. But it is by no means loud enough to play large gigs. Also, amperage is not a good indicator of how loud it is. The play's the thing, you gotta decide how loud it is yourself.
 

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