How Many Strings make an ERB?

[therealting]

Again, IMHO, it doesn't give you more notes, it gives you different notes. The physical characteristics of the bass remain the same.

An extended range gives you the original notes plus the additional range beyond that without losing any of the original range.

You are assuming that the new tuning is still in fourths.

A drop-D tuning for example gives you more notes while still leaving you ways to play all the original notes. Fifths tunings also give extended range, and can be done with overlap to the original notes.

If we take the phrase "extended range" literally, then anything which increases the number of available notes is technically "extended range". This would include adding strings, adding frets, and using tunings which increase the distance between the lowest and highest strings.

 

[VinceLovesF]

The first low B string on a bass appeared in 1975, when Fodera collaborated with Anthony Jackson to create a new six-string electric bass.

I don't think you should rely on Wikipedia....
It's Ken Smith who develloped the first 6 strings with Anthony Jackson....
How could Fodera did that, as Vinnie Fodera was surely working for Ken Smith at that time (I think not sure!) and that Fodera Guitars have been created in 1983!!!

Vince

 

[VinceLovesF]

For me an extended range bass can be any tuning that takes you lower or higher than what would be considered standard tuning.

standard
E A D G

B E A D G

E A D G C

B E A D G C

extended

C# F# B E

B E A D G C F

E A D G C F Bb

B E A D G C F Bb

and obviously anywhere in between.the standard 4,5(low B/high C)and 6 string bass has evolved into the accepted standard tuning.

+1

 

[ras1983]

You are assuming that the new tuning is still in fourths.

A drop-D tuning for example gives you more notes while still leaving you ways to play all the original notes. Fifths tunings also give extended range, and can be done with overlap to the original notes.

If we take the phrase "extended range" literally, then anything which increases the number of available notes is technically "extended range". This would include adding strings, adding frets, and using tunings which increase the distance between the lowest and highest strings.

that's exactly what i was trying to say.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Extending what is agreed to as a standard 4 string Bass to go Lower or higher logically constitutes it as extending the instruments range.


I hope I don't get shot for this one but
It was Carl Thompson who first collaborated with A.Jackson on the concept of his 6 string(contra)bass guitar(mid-late 70's)and secondly it was thru Kenn Smith(early 80's)and A.Jacksons collaboration(at the time Fodera was an employee of KS)that gave us the first commercially available 6 string bass guitar.when Anthony parted ways(early 80's) with KS,it then become the Fodera/Jackson 6 string bass guitar collaboration(that continues today).

 

[gottawalk]

I don't think you should rely on Wikipedia....
It's Ken Smith who develloped the first 6 strings with Anthony Jackson....
How could Fodera did that, as Vinnie Fodera was surely working for Ken Smith at that time (I think not sure!) and that Fodera Guitars have been created in 1983!!!

Vince

Thanks for the info. Thanks, too, to JAUQO III-X for clearing that point up. It's tough to find reliable information out there unless you already know the answer sometimes...Catch-22!

I agree on not relying too much on Wikipedia; but at least I'm trying to find some supporting proof to my ideas. It's quite a debate, huh? It's getting really interesting and there's a lot of new points that have come up that make me stop and think.

Moo mentions:

For me an ERB is at least 5 strings and definitely anything with 7 or more. By some of the criteria here a 24 fret 4 string or a p-bass with a Hipshot detuner could be an ERB. I think the term is pretty loose but it could be argued that now that low b's and high c's are commonplace extended would be something past that.

And Therealting mentions:

You are assuming that the new tuning is still in fourths.

A drop-D tuning for example gives you more notes while still leaving you ways to play all the original notes. Fifths tunings also give extended range, and can be done with overlap to the original notes.

If we take the phrase "extended range" literally, then anything which increases the number of available notes is technically "extended range". This would include adding strings, adding frets, and using tunings which increase the distance between the lowest and highest strings.

Maybe I should have said in my original statement that
"An extended range gives you the original notes plus the additional range beyond that without losing any of the original physical characteristics of the instrument." I guess I got hung up on the term "range". Maybe I'm not using the term "extended range" quite as literally as some. To me it's a "catagory" of a style of bass. Sort of like a bassoon specifically created to have a different range than the original is a "Contra"-Bassoon.

I'm starting to lean in the direction of

This would include adding strings, adding frets, and using tunings which increase the distance between the lowest and highest strings

I strongly agree with the "adding strings" and "adding frets", since that changes the physical attibutes of the instrument to specifically add range, but I'm still a little hung up on the "using tunings to increase the distance", since NOW we have to determine what the ORIGINAL range of a bass was way back in the "beginnings of time"... If that could be established, then IMHO, there could be a good argument for drop-tuning "creating" an ERbass, but it's still PHYSICALLY the same bass...

What would you say if someone came in with a '60's P-bass and said "Look at my Extended Range Bass!" Would it make sense to you, or is it just a P-bass with it's strings' tunings changed???

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Would one consider Mike Manrings Hyper bass an extended range bass?(it has more than 24 frets and with his hipshot extender keys it allows the possbilty of more than 10.000 different tunings?



and why does Hipshot call there D-tuning(machine head) an extender key(or machine head)?

 

[Marcus]

Without getting into the semantics of tuning and so on, I'll just answer the question as direct as possible: More than four strings.

 

[gottawalk]

Would one consider Mike Manrings Hyper bass an extended range bass?(it has more than 24 frets and with his hipshot extender keys it allows the possbilty of more than 10.000 different tunings?

and why does Hipshot call there D-tuning(machine head) an extender key(or machine head)?

My stance, IMO, is that if the bass is physically altered, ie; more frets than the "standard", (...can of worms...), and has "extender keys", etc that the "standard" didn't have, to extend the range of the instrument, then yes. It's an ERbass.

...and about the Hipshot; uh...dunno.

 

[AuG]

Extending what is agreed to as a standard 4 string Bass to go Lower or higher logically constitutes it as extending the instruments range.


I hope I don't get shot for this one but
It was Carl Thompson who first collaborated with A.Jackson on the concept of his 6 string(contra)bass guitar(mid-late 70's)and secondly it was thru Kenn Smith(early 80's)and A.Jacksons collaboration(at the time Fodera was an employee of KS)that gave us the first commercially available 6 string bass guitar.when Anthony parted ways(early 80's) with KS,it then become the Fodera/Jackson 6 string bass guitar collaboration(that continues today).

+1

 

[VinceLovesF]

Without getting into the semantics of tuning and so on, I'll just answer the question as direct as possible: More than four strings.

That's the thing everybody is saying!
Some used to 5-6 will answer 7+ (I'm here!)

But if Leo Fender had started with a 6?? Everybody would say "Jaco only needed 6"?
The "standard" would be 6?

Same for upright.....
The problem with that question is that this is a problem of pooint of view, of horizons!
Some will stay all life with4! 5! and so on......
Some will take a new path and move further....
I think we'll get around a long time!

Vince

 

[gottawalk]

But if Leo Fender had started with a 6?? Everybody would say "Jaco only needed 6"?
The "standard" would be 6?
Vince

I guess if that were the case, then 4 and 5 string basses would be "Minimalized Range Basses".....or "MRB's"

Yeah, we could be at this for a long time;... but just because you're "used" to a 5-string, doesn't stop it from being an extended range bass, if we use the "original" 4-string as the "standard". Can't call tenor drum a snare drum, just because you're used to playing it with sticks. It's part of the same "family" but physically a different animal.

ERb's may be becoming more common and familiar, but IMHO, they're still ERb's.

 

[VinceLovesF]

I guess if that were the case, then 4 and 5 string basses would be "Minimalized Range Basses".....or "MRB's" .

Mlol!

Yeah, we could be at this for a long time;... but just because you're "used" to a 5-string, doesn't stop it from being an extended range bass, if we use the "original" 4-string as the "standard". Can't call tenor drum a snare drum, just because you're used to playing it with sticks. It's part of the same "family" but physically a different animal.

ERb's may be becoming more common and familiar, but IMHO, they're still ERb's.

The standard is a problem!
To each is own standard. And to me, 4 to 6 is natural, adding strings is not, so ERB. That's why point of views differs!

And as you're playing the same way (up to 7-8!) why the term ERB would be used! let's go farther...
It's the same fingerboard, same theory, with the same ways to play!
So, why differencing them from "standard" 4?

Vince

 

[gottawalk]

Mlol!



The standard is a problem!
To each is own standard. And to me, 4 to 6 is natural, adding strings is not, so ERB. That's why point of views differs!

And as you're playing the same way (up to 7-8!) why the term ERB would be used! let's go farther...
It's the same fingerboard, same theory, with the same ways to play!
So, why differencing them from "standard" 4?

Vince

Well, because the question was what makes it "extended". I would think that one would have to back to the roots of the bass guitar, find out what the original configuration is and then bass any "extensions" in the range against that information. So far, no one has been able to post any defining information about the history of the bass guitar and what the original configuration was for an electric. Closest we've gotten is that Fender set a "template" it seems for others to follow. Some may not agree with that, considering that there's a lot of other basses out there that have no "ties" to the Fender design, but we have to start somewhere until someone "in the know" tells us what the first electric bass was built like.

I guess, for me, the term "Standard" refers to that. The first original bass guitar and it's configuration at that time. Anything else after that is a modification, and "extension" of range based on that original. If not, then maybe this whole thing is a moot point, and there's no such thing as "extended range". Maybe all basses are just basses and that's that.
(Sure is a fun debate, though! )

 

[subsonic87]

Without getting into the semantics of tuning and so on, I'll just answer the question as direct as possible: More than four strings.

Except you forget Knuckle's Quake bass, which is an octave lower than a standard four-stringer. It's an ERB.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Since some people do not consider my Subcontra bass(C# F# B E) to be an ERB,what would it be considered?

 

[VinceLovesF]

Well, because the question was what makes it "extended". I would think that one would have to back to the roots of the bass guitar, find out what the original configuration is and then bass any "extensions" in the range against that information. So far, no one has been able to post any defining information about the history of the bass guitar and what the original configuration was for an electric. Closest we've gotten is that Fender set a "template" it seems for others to follow. Some may not agree with that, considering that there's a lot of other basses out there that have no "ties" to the Fender design, but we have to start somewhere until someone "in the know" tells us what the first electric bass was built like.

I guess, for me, the term "Standard" refers to that. The first original bass guitar and it's configuration at that time. Anything else after that is a modification, and "extension" of range based on that original. If not, then maybe this whole thing is a moot point, and there's no such thing as "extended range". Maybe all basses are just basses and that's that.
(Sure is a fun debate, though! )

Very funny debate, I like it....
I understand your point about Fender as the standard! Sounds logic to me...

 

[VinceLovesF]

Since some people do not consider my Subcontra bass(C# F# B E) to be an ERB,what would it be considered?

A lowered Range bass?

 

[subsonic87]

Well, because the question was what makes it "extended". I would think that one would have to back to the roots of the bass guitar, find out what the original configuration is and then bass any "extensions" in the range against that information. So far, no one has been able to post any defining information about the history of the bass guitar and what the original configuration was for an electric. Closest we've gotten is that Fender set a "template" it seems for others to follow. Some may not agree with that, considering that there's a lot of other basses out there that have no "ties" to the Fender design, but we have to start somewhere until someone "in the know" tells us what the first electric bass was built like.

I guess, for me, the term "Standard" refers to that. The first original bass guitar and it's configuration at that time. Anything else after that is a modification, and "extension" of range based on that original. If not, then maybe this whole thing is a moot point, and there's no such thing as "extended range". Maybe all basses are just basses and that's that.
(Sure is a fun debate, though! )

Actually, the very first bass guitar as we think of them (fretted, played horizontally) was made by a Seattle company called Audiovox. It had four strings, EADG. There's one up at the EMP (Paul Allen's museum) if you want to see one in person. I think it was made in the 30's or 40's, but that's the first production bass guitar known.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Actually, the very first bass guitar as we think of them (fretted, played horizontally) was made by a Seattle company called Audiovox. It had four strings, EADG. There's one up at the EMP (Paul Allen's museum) if you want to see one in person. I think it was made in the 30's or 40's, but that's the first production bass guitar known.

the earliest history of the electric goes back to the 1930's,where a company called audiovox(out of Seattle,Wa)made a few electric bass guitars(that were tuned E A D G)Leo Fender did not invent the first electric Bass,he made a very commercially viable product/tool