How much amp is “enough,” my reply

[project_c]

New players, students, musucians in general often ask, " how much amp do I need for " ( insert small gig, bar gig, recording, private parties, the Enormo-Dome ~ yes, a Spinal Tap reference~ here).

Well, if you don't have enough, you are screwed, period.

My belief is, you can never have "too much," because volume and gain knobs go both up and down.

What is just enough?

In my opinion, this is "just enough."

If you know what it is, you are already all squared away.

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I'm going to respectfully disagree with this notion based on my personal experience. I followed this general line of thought when I first started out, and got something way too powerful for bedroom practice. (A 1000w Warwick head and an Epifani 210 cab amongst other things). These massively powerful things sound good loud, but at bedroom volume they sound like a hollow bucket, and they are not very forgiving when your technique is still weak, which means you will not be inspired to play unless you're ok with accepting your own crapness as a beginner.

So I would suggest the opposite: buy a cheap but nice baby combo which is designed for low volume, a Rumble or an Ampeg, learn the basics on that in your bedroom, then about a couple of years in, start looking at the big stuff.

 

[lfmn16]

As we get a lot older, we find our how big is enough question answered by how small and lightweight can we get. I played through bigger amps until I hit my 60's. Then everything started downsizing. These days I use a Mesa 800 amp and a Markbass NY121 cab or an Ear Candy 1x12 cab. I have a GK Neo 4x10 cab in reserve but never use it unless we play an outdoor gig without PA support. A little 12" cab carries the clubs and bars we play.

I just turned 60 myself. I'm playing with an Ampeg PF800 and PF115 cabinet. I'm letting the PA carry the load and keeping stage volume to an absolute minimum.

 

[DD Gunz]

My main amp is a GK400RB II. I run it at 8ohms and think it puts out about 140 Watts. I've never run out of volume, and rarely do I get to really push it. I don't understand how someone could need more than 500 Watts. Want yes, need no.

For outside gigs with or without PA, I add another 15. This amp is enough for me. I've done about 40 shows a year for the last 3 years.

It has been my expierence that GK amps are very loud for their rating. I have owned many amps in the last 25 years and my GKs have always been louder than other amps rated at more wattage. I think an 800RB at 300 watts is perceivably louder than some 500 watt amps I have owned. I also think the 400RB sounds much louder than many 300 watt amps I have owned. Voicing has much to do with this I am sure.

 

[bolophonic]

I've never turned my 700RB-II up more than halfway. Doesn't mean I wouldn't buy more watts in the future, but I probably won't ever need them.

 

[gregmon79]

New players, students, musucians in general often ask, " how much amp do I need for " ( insert small gig, bar gig, recording, private parties, the Enormo-Dome ~ yes, a Spinal Tap reference~ here).

Well, if you don't have enough, you are screwed, period.

My belief is, you can never have "too much," because volume and gain knobs go both up and down.

What is just enough?

In my opinion, this is "just enough."

If you know what it is, you are already all squared away.

View attachment 2879444

Couldn't agree more. It's a lot easier to turn down that it is to run out of output/volume. I've been on the losing end of that battle when I first started and I learned quickly, don't ever show up to a gig with a puny amp. Or rather, too puny of an amp for said situation. a 112 combo could work pretty good for a quieter jazz session in a coffee shop but if you are going to be on stage with a loud rock band at a medium sized bar I wouldn't walk in with less than a 410 and at least a 450 watt amp.

(I realize that this is a tube amp that is "only" 180w. But it can get just as loud as my GK 1001rbII)

 

[DD Gunz]

Couldn't agree more. It's a lot easier to turn down that it is to run out of output/volume. I've been on the losing end of that battle when I first started and I learned quickly, don't ever show up to a gig with a puny amp. Or rather, too puny of an amp for said situation. a 112 combo could work pretty good for a quieter jazz session in a coffee shop but if you are going to be on stage with a loud rock band at a medium sized bar I wouldn't walk in with less than a 410 and at least a 450 watt amp.

(I realize that this is a tube amp that is "only" 180w. But it can get just as loud as my GK 1001rbII)
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Just as loud as a 1000RB? I have an SVT at 300 tube watts and I can't come close to how loud my 1001 can get through an 810. Both are insanely loud, but the 1001RB is the loudest amp I have ever used. That being said, I have no need for either one of those amps to be pushed.

 

[basscapes]

A pic of my monster rig (christened "The Electric Drywall Orchestra" by band mates and bandname-dot-com many years ago)...

The RBI died shortly after these pics were taken.

The white piping was removed later, as was the CLASSIC badge (I hate both)...

 

[basscapes]

Couldn't agree more. It's a lot easier to turn down that it is to run out of output/volume. I've been on the losing end of that battle when I first started and I learned quickly, don't ever show up to a gig with a puny amp. Or rather, too puny of an amp for said situation. a 112 combo could work pretty good for a quieter jazz session in a coffee shop but if you are going to be on stage with a loud rock band at a medium sized bar I wouldn't walk in with less than a 410 and at least a 450 watt amp.

(I realize that this is a tube amp that is "only" 180w. But it can get just as loud as my GK 1001rbII)
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I still envy that power amp!

Just thought you should know...

 

[gregmon79]

Just as loud as a 1000RB? I have an SVT at 300 tube watts and I can't come close to how loud my 1001 can get through an 810. Both are insanely loud, but the 1001RB is the loudest amp I have ever used. That being said, I have no need for either one of those amps to be pushed.

Well yeah. For as loud as I ever need. It's not like I dimed the output on either just to see how loud they both got. But I used the GK for a few years with the band and it never let me down on volume. Same goes for the Electric. I'm sure you're right, the GK can get louder. But at that point, what would be the point?

 

[el murdoque]

I have this one project. Hardrock, two guitars, bass and drums. The practice room is quite large and for some reason a bass trap. The guitars go through a 212 cab in one case (and different heads, but mostly a mesa 25W head or a Kemper) and a 412 with a 30W head in the other. In this room, a 2x12 with 500W head do not cut it. I need a stack.
That is the only place I need one, though. When this project plays out, I bring one cab and have to dial down on the master. Generally speaking, my Barefaced Super Compact or one of my Aguilar GS212 with a 500W head are enough for 99% of what I'm doing.

In the past, I always focused on having enough power so I can dial in the tone i want and don't have the need to dial in the tone that works, which meant full stack. I've had the 115+410 thing, 810, 412 and 215.

Then suddenly, after decades I realized that an amp serves me four purposes:
1. Practice: All I need is a cab that won't shy away when I approach the low B, the watts of the head are irrelevant. I practiced with a 1W head and was fine.

2. Rehearsal: This is where most power is needed. No further amplification and when you're set against a hard hitting drummer, you need to get through.

3. Live stage monitoring. When I'm on IEM's it's nicer to have an amp behind me that shakes the stage and lets me feel the bass.

4. Live sound: I usually use the DI out (pre) of my amp for FOH but I have a few pedals in my signal.
My Sansamp has two settings I use, one normal and one with a bit boosted lows and all the highs cut.
A good FOH dude will listen to my amp and replicate that sound for FOH. If I don't bring an amp, he just does
what he thinks best, which can be hit or miss.

Nowadays, I tend to focus on the quality of the signal first. My main amp is a 15W tube amp that sends a DI signal from the output transformer. At home, where I play most, 15W is sufficient. Live, this signal is send to FOH and IEM, but I connect a poweramp and have it on a cab, too - for reasons 3&4.

 

[chris_b]

Enough for me is what gets me though my loudest gig. Currently that's a 700 watt D class amp and 2 112 cabs.

I've recently moved up from 500 watt to 700 watt to get my headroom back.

I can mix and match some smaller 110 and 210 cabs for gigs where the volume is more normal.

 

[basscapes]

My main amp is a GK400RB II. I run it at 8ohms and think it puts out about 140 Watts. I've never run out of volume, and rarely do I get to really push it. I don't understand how someone could need more than 500 Watts. Want yes, need no.

For outside gigs with or without PA, I add another 15. This amp is enough for me. I've done about 40 shows a year for the last 3 years.

I used the very same amp with a 410 for a punk band- it had enough volume against a Strat/100Watt Marshall/Yeller/Drummer in small clubs.

I ended up using a PAIR of them- one clean through a 410 and the other dirty through a 115 in a classic rock band (two guitars/drummer/3 singers).

I miss those amps too...

 

[Standalone]

My main amp is a GK400RB II. I run it at 8ohms and think it puts out about 140 Watts. I've never run out of volume, and rarely do I get to really push it. I don't understand how someone could need more than 500 Watts. Want yes, need no.

For outside gigs with or without PA, I add another 15. This amp is enough for me. I've done about 40 shows a year for the last 3 years.

Same, only fewer shows....

 

[baileyboy]

...how much amp do I need for?...

300 watt Mesa Walkabout has always provided sufficient output for any venue I've ever played.

 

[micguy]

I don't carrry an amp - I go direct almost everythere I play. I generally play places where the subs have somewhere between 2 and 20 KW. While I've felt the Earth rumble a bunch here and there, my dream is to one day (like the electric football set some of us had as kids), vibrate myself off the stage.

As that hasn't happened yet, "enough" is somewhere north of 20KW. I'll let you know when I know more.

 

[bass40hz]

One of my life mantras...figure out just what you need..then get the next biggest size. It works no matter if you're getting a new amp, a new snowblower, a new SUV...or a sack of White Castles ;-)

 

[HeadWind]

I don't have an answer, I have a question:

Tomorrow night I am playing in a small room, but set up specifically for music. The sound guy likes to keep the sound reasonable, since all the seats are close to the stage. The bar owner's son keeps his ampeg 810 cabinet there (his band rehearses there, and, well, who likes to move a fridge). Long story short, I am just going to play through that cabinet rather than bringing my smaller one. I will still use my "head" which is actually a ToneHammer preamp and a crest prolite power amp. I will also DI into the house PA so the monitor is just stage monitoring.

Anything I should be concerned about using an Ampeg 810 just as a small local stage monitor. Can these things actually be used quietly without running into problems? I don't think so, but thought I would ask. These things are usually intended to be loud.

 

[DD Gunz]

Well yeah. For as loud as I ever need. It's not like I dimed the output on either just to see how loud they both got. But I used the GK for a few years with the band and it never let me down on volume. Same goes for the Electric. I'm sure you're right, the GK can get louder. But at that point, what would be the point?

No point to that kind of volume. I have played a few outdoor shows allowing me to open up for more than I normally would. But for most applications, I have the GK barely working. Same for the SVT.

 

[Lava]

Headroom, headroom, headroom...

 

[DD Gunz]

I don't have an answer, I have a question:

Tomorrow night I am playing in a small room, but set up specifically for music. The sound guy likes to keep the sound reasonable, since all the seats are close to the stage. The bar owner's son keeps his ampeg 810 cabinet there (his band rehearses there, and, well, who likes to move a fridge). Long story short, I am just going to play through that cabinet rather than bringing my smaller one. I will still use my "head" which is actually a ToneHammer preamp and a crest prolite power amp. I will also DI into the house PA so the monitor is just stage monitoring.

Anything I should be concerned about using an Ampeg 810 just as a small local stage monitor. Can these things actually be used quietly without running into problems? I don't think so, but thought I would ask. These things are usually intended to be loud.

I use an 810 for all shows. However, I play in a rock cover band where the Ampeg and huge guitar stacks are part of the show. It's like an arena gig in a club and it's over the top.

You can turn down like any other cab. It puts the volume up to your ears and makes it very easy to hear your bass. I happen to love the sound of the 810 and my band helps me move it so it's not a big deal at all. Hell, it's easier to move than a heavy 410 IMO.