How much Amp power do you need?

[Bitterdale]

Ok guys, I know I am throwing myself under the bus here, and I know that some of what I say isn't going to jive with everyone.

First, I used "should" 4 times:



The first and second times are so you don't hurt yourself/others. Hearing loss is a real danger in our business. Notice how the second situation is from the perspective of someone in the audience trying to order a beverage at a small bar/club. Most of these venues are not intended to be ear splitting power domes, they are places people go with friends for entertainment and/or food, beverages, conversation; a night out.

It seems slightly ironic that I am being told "don't tell me what my rig should be" or that I don't understand the need for more power, when the third and forth times "should" gets mentioned, I am advocating for more power.

I know that there are situations where you need more power. I know that some genres "require" more stage volume than others. As with a lot of talkbass, context matters and often is overlooked. This is why I specified venue sizes, I strongly advocated for PA support, and I said that sometimes you do need more power.

I am offering advice (that still holds ground) based on "average" situations as the thread stared off as "I'm a relative newbie bass player. I'm a little confused as to how much amp power you need for the following situations" A lot of bassists (myself included) aspire to owning gear that they want, but isn't absolutely necessary, nor would it be recommended to a new bassist. I would love to have a Fodera, Alembic, Conklin, or some other high end bass, and a wall of cabinets powered by an atom bomb. I don't think this is a need for most people, nor would I recommend it to a new player. If you want or own gear like this, all the power (literally in some cases) to you. I repeat, most new players are looking for gear that will work, not a "if money/carrying cabinets wasn't an issue" solution right off the bat. Some of them might eventually want/need more that 400-500 watts. Most bassists that get to that point in their career have technically and musically advanced/matured, and want to upgrade/something different than what they started with anyway.

I have one "big amp". It is a 450 watt head with a 4x10 cab. I have played shows with extension speakers, and I have played shows where I use a larger setup. I love me an Ampeg fridge like everyone else. I can do almost everything I currently do or can see myself doing with that amp. I have a couple of smaller combos that come out for jazz gigs or practice situations. I might find myself in a situation where I need/want more power (I currently rent or use the backline provided by the pro audio company in these situations) and if I consistently find myself there, I will consider something bigger.

The "one amp with lots of head room just in case" scenario does make sense, and I am not knocking it entirely. I just don't want to have to carry that much rig all the time when it will only make it past a master volume of "think about turning it on" in rare circumstances. Personally if I am playing a show where I need more power than I've got, I am aware of it well in advance and will deal with it accordingly by renting or using the provided backline previously mentioned. If that idea doesn't work for you, renting in your area isn't an option, or you really like having a ton of power in your own gear, that is your own choice.

If you want or feel you need more power than this in the situations where I suggested 400-500 watts would be enough stand alone power (rehearsals and <100 capacity gigs) I am not stopping you. I am not trying to advocate "less is more" but trying to suggest realistic parameters for people who are considering that first step past a 50 watt bedroom practice amp. If you are in the "more is more" camp, I respect that. I just won't be dropping by your trailer for a beer any time soon.

I think your advice is sound and reflects my experience, as well.

 

[JMimbs]

I've never needed more than my GK 400RB and a 1x15 cab. But then I've only played small venues, and/or ones with PA support.

 

[Catbuster]

My minimum is a GK 700RBII and a NEO 410. It can go a lot quieter than expected, but it also leaves me options to be very loud if I want. I do not in any way want to be left without enough power. Ever. I would like to try a 112 and see what it can do power-wise.

 

[CL400Peavey]

"Invalid Link Removed"

"Used to express obligation or duty"

Who are you to obligate anyone?

 

[zon6c-f]

I recommend trading in your 60watt rumble for G C house brand Acoustic B-200.

Turn gain down for at-home..in-house use.. Turn up for full band practice.. D I into PA for live performance... if needed. Biggest Bang for the buck..tons of tone.. DI -out..THERE.


Just want to be plenty loud?? Any 300-400 watt rig and above gets you there.

Again,I prefer Acoustic, but Ampeg S V T may be your answer..double cab S V T..YOU'RE THERE..Big $$ to play that..

 

[MikeCanada]

http://******.com/?q=should+definition

Should:
"Indicating a desirable or expected state: "by now students should be able to read"."

I feel like indicating that one "should" not want to injure their own ears, or those of their audience is a "desireable or expected state".

Likewise, I feel like you "should" have a solid contract for big gigs so you don't get burned, but I am not obligating anyone to do so.

Finally, if you do not agree that you "should be heard and not under powered" (I would argue that "heard" and "under powered" here are much more open to interpretation than "should" is) then I feel like you are not fulfilling your duty as a bassist.

Furthermore, I feel like you "should" not feed the trolls.

 

[CL400Peavey]

http://******.com/?q=should+definition

Should:
"Indicating a desirable or expected state: "by now students should be able to read"."

I feel like indicating that one "should" not want to injure their own ears, or those of their audience is a "desireable or expected state".

Likewise, I feel like you "should" have a solid contract for big gigs so you don't get burned, but I am not obligating anyone to do so.

Finally, if you do not agree that you "should be heard and not under powered" (I would argue that "heard" and "under powered" here are much more open to interpretation than "should" is) then I feel like you are not fulfilling your duty as a bassist.

Furthermore, I feel like you "should" not feed the trolls.

None of this, or half of what you have posted in this thread is about the power of an amp. What is your point?

 

[Gaolee]

I like huge cabinets, because I'm not really a musician. So there you go. The amplifier that powers the huge cabinets has an unusual feature that is missing on most amplifiers. It's this round knob that you turn one way to get louder and the other way to get quieter. It has a name, but that name is a secret. Bob or something. So, lets say you are in a small room. You can turn Bob in the quiet direction and less sound comes out. It is an amazing invention and it means you can have a really big amp and cabinet without hurting anybody's ears.

But remember - it is a secret. If everyone knew about Bob, then it wouldn't be so special.

 

[Fat Steve]

http://******.com/?q=should+definition

Should:
"Indicating a desirable or expected state: "by now students should be able to read"."

I feel like indicating that one "should" not want to injure their own ears, or those of their audience is a "desireable or expected state".

Likewise, I feel like you "should" have a solid contract for big gigs so you don't get burned, but I am not obligating anyone to do so.

Finally, if you do not agree that you "should be heard and not under powered" (I would argue that "heard" and "under powered" here are much more open to interpretation than "should" is) then I feel like you are not fulfilling your duty as a bassist.

Furthermore, I feel like you "should" not feed the trolls.

Some of the best concern trolling I've ever seen right there. 10/10

 

[MikeCanada]

Some of the best concern trolling I've ever seen right there. 10/10

*takes a bow*

 

[CL400Peavey]

Also please understand that watts =\= volume. How loud is that 100 watt light bulb?

I think this is the disconnect that Mike is having.

 

[tbz]

I recommend trading in your 60watt rumble for G C house brand Acoustic B-200.

Just have to say this; I really would not ever recommend Acoustic to anyone.

It's GC's house brand, they're not really quality pieces of gear, and in most cases you'd be better off buying something used off of CL or these forums, than buying a new Acoustic *anything*.

Personally cannot think of any discerning bassists that like them. It's purely opinion so YMMV, but as this is, more or less an option thread I wanted to point that out.

Most feedback I've seen about Acoustic's current product lines are not good. My personal experience has been quite poor, YMMV.

 

[Bitterdale]

None of this, or half of what you have posted in this thread is about the power of an amp. What is your point?

Prior to you taking personal offense to his statements and proceeding to berate his opinion, pretty much everything Mike posted was about the power of an amp.

We get it, you like high power amps. No one is attacking you. Take a break.

 

[MikeCanada]

I questioned the need for 800+ watts for most situations, as I feel it could be over kill. I indicated that 400-500 watts would likely suffice for most circumstances. I qualified that there are indeed situations that merit more power. In theses situations, I suggested using what is provided by the professional audio company at that venue, or renting something more powerful based on the situation. I did not provide wattage because there are numerous variables for larger gigs. I stipulated that they are usually the exception to the rule for most bassists and should be addressed on a case by case situation. Again, context is much more important than a number.

My point remains that I believe 400-500 watts, out of a 4x10, 2x12, or similar configuration will provide enough power to most bassists, in most cases.

Although there are other circumstances and indeed preferences, this was in respect to the original inquiry about what one needs for an array of circumstances. I stipulated that this is a "how much amp power do you need?" thread, not a "how much power do you bring to a gig regardless to whether or not it is needed" or a "everyone tell me how big your rig is" thread.

I was addressing the question, not postulating on personal preferences, my own included. This is sometimes difficult as one's own personal bias means that it is easy to believe what you personally want in an ideal situation is what everyone needs in every situation.

I will admit that I am not overly familiar with all genres of music. I have very little interest in dubstep, house music and other genres where the bass "sound" is a sub-bass rumble that physically shakes you. I clarified rock/pop/metal/jazz/acoustic as a context array. I feel like most of the people here fit into those boxes, but there definitely are outliers. I do not mean to offend anyone or suggest that types of music outside of the mentioned genres of rock/pop/metal/jazz/acoustic are less "music" than others, but that they likely cover a large percentage of the demographic found here.

Finally, everyone is more than allowed personal preferences. I am attempting to put my own aside in order to provide an answer to the question, which came across as me hating on the "more is more" crowd. That wasn't what I was trying to do, I was just trying to question if the 800-1500+ watt preferences were really good recommendations.

tl;dr: 400-500 watts, solid state, through a 4x10, 2x12, or something similar (2x10 and 1x12, 1x15 or whatever floats your boat) from a reputable company will fill the needs/provide enough power to (previously self-defined) rehearsals, small gigs, and medium gigs with PA support.

 

[kikstand454]

Just have to say this; I really would not ever recommend Acoustic to anyone.

It's GC's house brand, they're not really quality pieces of gear, and in most cases you'd be better off buying something used off of CL or these forums, than buying a new Acoustic *anything*.

Personally cannot think of any discerning bassists that like them. It's purely opinion so YMMV, but as this is, more or less an option thread I wanted to point that out.

Most feedback I've seen about Acoustic's current product lines are not good. My personal experience has been quite poor, YMMV.

While my status as a "discerning " bassist may be a point of debate, I do in fact love my b200h. It hasn't given me any issues in the 5 years or so I have owned it and all of those were gigging years. Approximately 120-140 shows on that amp. God only knows how many rehearsals. Pushing 4ohms.
it sounds great, it has 200 real watts, and it hasn't barely gave me a hiccup.
I could not possibly recommend an amp MORE for a beggining performer or a budget limited one.

IME/IMO, ymmv, yada yada.......

 

[Fat Steve]

While my status as a "discerning " bassist may be a point of debate, I do in fact love my b200h. It hasn't given me any issues in the 5 years or so I have owned it and all of those were gigging years. Approximately 120-140 shows on that amp. Pushing 4ohms.
it sounds great, it has 200 real watts, and it hasn't barely gave me a hiccup.
I could not possibly recommend an amp MORE for a beggining performer or a budget limited one.

IME/IMO, ymmv, yada yada.......

+1
Gear snobs are about the worst kind of snobs. If it's cheap and sounds good to YOU, who cares that it's GC's house brand. However, if ones social status, musical reputation or self esteem is wrapped around the brand name of a product, then sure spend the extra money. I wouldn't recommend a beginner do that, as they could probably use that money for lessons or other needed gear.

 

[onosson]

I absolutely agree that 400-500 watts is a very safe ballpark for the majority of gigs that a typical bass player (for various definitions of typical) will find themselves in.

I use an 800 watt amp myself so that I have the capacity to handle a wider variety of gigs, but in reality I would be fine with 400-500 in the vast majority of cases. It's just a bit of a precaution, and one that didn't cost very much in terms of the price difference to get the extra power.

 

[gurensan]

I agree with the above. You can't have too much, but you CAN turn it up too loud. I think 800 is probably as much as I would ever need, or 300 if it's an SVT or other all-tube amp.

Y'all can always turn down, but you can only turn up so much.

 

[jeff7bass]

My last amp was 380+50 GK 700rb into a 115 and 210. LOUD. My new amp is a Carvin BX1200 into a pair of DRB 12" cabs at 275w x 2. Never turned the amp up to half yet. Stage volume is overrated and can be trouble.

 

[Downunderwonder]

I questioned the need for 800+ watts for most situations, as I feel it could be over kill. I indicated that 400-500 watts would likely suffice for most circumstances. I qualified that there are indeed situations that merit more power. In theses situations, I suggested using what is provided by the professional audio company at that venue, or renting something more powerful based on the situation. I did not provide wattage because there are numerous variables for larger gigs. I stipulated that they are usually the exception to the rule for most bassists and should be addressed on a case by case situation. Again, context is much more important than a number.

My point remains that I believe 400-500 watts, out of a 4x10, 2x12, or similar configuration will provide enough power to most bassists, in most cases.

Although there are other circumstances and indeed preferences, this was in respect to the original inquiry about what one needs for an array of circumstances. I stipulated that this is a "how much amp power do you need?" thread, not a "how much power do you bring to a gig regardless to whether or not it is needed" or a "everyone tell me how big your rig is" thread.

I was addressing the question, not postulating on personal preferences, my own included. This is sometimes difficult as one's own personal bias means that it is easy to believe what you personally want in an ideal situation is what everyone needs in every situation.

I will admit that I am not overly familiar with all genres of music. I have very little interest in dubstep, house music and other genres where the bass "sound" is a sub-bass rumble that physically shakes you. I clarified rock/pop/metal/jazz/acoustic as a context array. I feel like most of the people here fit into those boxes, but there definitely are outliers. I do not mean to offend anyone or suggest that types of music outside of the mentioned genres of rock/pop/metal/jazz/acoustic are less "music" than others, but that they likely cover a large percentage of the demographic found here.

Finally, everyone is more than allowed personal preferences. I am attempting to put my own aside in order to provide an answer to the question, which came across as me hating on the "more is more" crowd. That wasn't what I was trying to do, I was just trying to question if the 800-1500+ watt preferences were really good recommendations.

tl;dr: 400-500 watts, solid state, through a 4x10, 2x12, or something similar (2x10 and 1x12, 1x15 or whatever floats your boat) from a reputable company will fill the needs/provide enough power to (previously self-defined) rehearsals, small gigs, and medium gigs with PA support.

You may not have realised it but TB isn't very representative of the bass playing world. Extremists are overrepresented. They project their own extremism onto anyone presenting a moderating viewpoint that would threaten their worldview of thunderous stage bass being the end of ends for all occasions.