How much are bass guitars truly worth?

[DigitalMan]

It was more that I was disagreeing that cost-plus is the general mechanism by which prices are set, not arguing that bass guitars are in any way similar to phones, just using that and software as examples showing that cost-plus is often not the method used, or at least for part of the time.



I'd disagree on that. If a company has a competitor selling basses in a tight market at $100 and due to various factors it's costs are $101 then selling at $101 might result in zero sales, so what the market will bear is an important factor. Obviously it might also seek to lower it's input costs to enable it to sell at $99 again rather than sell at a loss, but if it's not possible to do that in the short term (e.g. it would require retooling and the capital for this isn't available) then selling at a loss for a period might be required. It certainly happens on occasions in many industries.

Although I've given the example above as a low cost production, at higher prices skilled staff are probably more of a factor in the cost of each instrument, and retention of skilled staff can also be a factor for many industries in being prepared to sell at a loss for a period, as laying off and rehiring staff is disruptive, with no certainty of being able to rehire the same quality of staff or get them up to being fully productive if new to your company.



That could be true. I don't really know what 'young people' listen to these days. I probably wouldn't consider it music and just ask them to get off my lawn

I think we mostly agree here and there. No business can say "we lose $2 on every bass sold but we make up for it in volume" and stay in business for very long. Certainly a bulk of the work seems around cogs or input prices. Yet the price points for all the various levels of instruments seem to be very stable and predictable. To me this signals that the market is mature (duh) and the prices aren't fluctuating much (if at all) even though sales seem largely flat.

I will finish with one other concept that we havent touched upon, and that is the desire for business such as Fender and Gibson to hold margin (not reduce price) in order to avoid undermining brand value.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I think we mostly agree here and there. No business can say "we lose $2 on every bass sold but we make up for it in volume" and stay in business for very long. Certainly a bulk of the work seems around cogs or input prices. Yet the price points for all the various levels of instruments seem to be very stable and predictable. To me this signals that the market is mature (duh) and the prices aren't fluctuating much (if at all) even though sales seem largely flat.

I will finish with one other concept that we havent touched upon, and that is the desire for business such as Fender and Gibson to hold margin (not reduce price) in order to avoid undermining brand value.

I'd agree with that.

 

[wouter12]

Anyone who has ever played a super nice bass and a super cheap bass would know the difference.

Oh yeah and do you ever. I have bought and played over 20 basses and sold 17 of them, one left to go. Some were super cheap and kinda 'did the job' not so bad really but definitely not great. Some were expensive and not quite 'it' and two were stunning, the band mates ears were used to judge them in addition to mine and the verdict was unanimous on those two. I am in heaven with the result. One of them is going to become a fretless though, saw the Jaco documentary, and it confirmed that my thoughts on fretless were correct.

Anyway, you don't always get a super bass just because it cost more. You really need to check out many of them and on top of that your ear will change, your musicality will change, your bandmates may change and the type of music you play, and all that means that you are in for a G.A.S. journey until you find the one that just 'gets' you in your gut, your heart, your being. One of my uprights does that to me, I feel like my body is disappearing into the bass as it resonates. It is from the 1800's and it is an insanely good instrument. I am truly fortunate to have this experience. Start somewhere and save up so you can rotate through a few of them at a time and then you will learn the differences.

Then you have the cab and head or combo to consider and that can make a difference as well. I went through a few of these too.

 

[Moonpatrol]

I don't think its worth it to buy a cheap bass that works for a while but then you get tired of it. I also hate to spend a lot on something that can be had a lot cheaper. Its like buying a bicycle at Walmart. Don't ever do that! Go to a bike shop or sports store. Bicycles are one thing where price and value have a consistent link. With basses, I think vintage should be a lot cheaper than they go for now. The price of some of those classic Fenders is stupid to me. It might be more of a trophy than a good value. I would rather have three good basses than one classic Fender.

 

[Amos Hopkins]

From a subjective point of view, they're worth however much someone will pay for them. However, functionally (in my opinion), a $1,000 bass should play $400 better then a $600 bass.

 

[DigitalMan]

I think the problem is the word "worth" conflicting the rest of the original post. If you go back and read the OP you will find that we have all strayed far off-topic.

The OP clearly stated that he wasn't interested in perceived worth. The question would probably be better served with the word "cost", meaning how much does it actually cost to build a bass. And subsequently how does that cost relate to the price the manufacturer sets.

It is a more data driven conversation and less a warm fuzzy how does everyone feel conversation.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

In terms of worth, arguably it's worth the benefit you derive from it. Converting resale value is easy enough but even totalling up gig receipts during the period of ownership is hard to calculate as you'd need to know what you would have got playing a £100 bass you used the £1000 bass for and it's not an obvious relationship. Or maybe buying a £1000 bass will boost your serotonin and thus confidence enough to ask and get a raise at work. It how much is having fun at a jam session worth? It's a pretty impossible calculation!

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I think the problem is the word "worth" conflicting the rest of the original post. If you go back and read the OP you will find that we have all strayed far off-topic.

The OP clearly stated that he wasn't interested in perceived worth. The question would probably be better served with the word "cost", meaning how much does it actually cost to build a bass. And subsequently how does that cost relate to the price the manufacturer sets.

It is a more data driven conversation and less a warm fuzzy how does everyone feel conversation.

There's evidence that for some goods the price is set at what the market will bear and expects and that a purchaser's happiness (which is a factor in what it is worth to someone) can be enhanced if the product is more expensive compared to exactly the same product sold for less. For a quirky discussion of this 'Status Anxiety' by Alan de Botton can be both a fun and also exasperating read.

 

[DigitalMan]

There's evidence that for some goods the price is set at what the market will bear and expects and that a purchaser's happiness (which is a factor in what it is worth to someone) can be enhanced if the product is more expensive compared to exactly the same product sold for less. For a quirky discussion of this 'Status Anxiety' by Alan de Botton can be both a fun and also exasperating read.

Thats where the question becomes more interesting and complex, even though it is different from the OP question.

If you take jazz-style basses the original thoughts were directed at MIM versus US Standard levels of instrument. But from a price and perception perspective basses like a Sadowsky NYC seem to relate more closely to Louis Vuitton or Mont Blanc when it comes to price and status. I think there is general disagreement whether the Fender US Std is a status bass or a meat and potatoes bass.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Thats where the question becomes more interesting and complex, even though it is different from the OP question.

If you take jazz-style basses the original thoughts were directed at MIM versus US Standard levels of instrument. But from a price and perception perspective basses like a Sadowsky NYC seem to relate more closely to Louis Vuitton or Mont Blanc when it comes to price and status. I think there is general disagreement whether the Fender US Std is a status bass or a meat and potatoes bass.

It depends where and when you are, too. Certainly 20 years ago an MIA Fender was a status symbol in the UK, although it is less so now. In the UK Gordon Smith (if it is still going - it never did much in terms of bass) offered a hand built product for much the same price as an MIA (although to be fair they are more Gibsonesque)

I've never played a Sadowsky but given the specifications they don't seem to be unduly expensive, although improvements are often incremental. I've played a few Ways, though, and one if the Status made Trace Elliot bases, and they were definitely better sounding and playing than a Squier CV. I like the pickups in the typical MIA PB than the CV, though.

The nicest PLAYING basses I used have been a Washburn B10B, a Westone thunder III, a 1984 Fender MIJ PB, a 1984 Squier MIJ PB, three Wals, s 1984 Tokai fretless JB, and surprisingly a mid 1990s Encore PB. So it's a bit variable. best playing AND sounding is another matter.

 

[hrodbert696]

I'm going to be one of those didn't-read-the-whole-thread people, so sorry if it's already been mentioned, but once one accounts for inflation, didn't those pre-CBS Fender basses cost something like $2700 in modern money? Double what an MIA costs now. However that affects our perceptions here...

 

[buldog5151bass]

I think the problem is the word "worth" conflicting the rest of the original post. If you go back and read the OP you will find that we have all strayed far off-topic.

The OP clearly stated that he wasn't interested in perceived worth. The question would probably be better served with the word "cost", meaning how much does it actually cost to build a bass. And subsequently how does that cost relate to the price the manufacturer sets.

It is a more data driven conversation and less a warm fuzzy how does everyone feel conversation.

A lot just cannot be quantified. There is not that much difference in price of parts between and MIM Fender and a Sadowski.

Take a '57 T-Bird and melt down the metal...

 

[DigitalMan]

A lot just cannot be quantified. There is not that much difference in price of parts between and MIM Fender and a Sadowski.

Take a '57 T-Bird and melt down the metal...

If you read the OP question though, it included the cost of labor (eg "cutting the wood"). Any bass manufacturer should be able to tell you exactly the cost of building a bass including parts and fully burdened (benefits, taxes, etc) labor.

Above and beyond that are shared costs such as facilties, sales, marketing, distribution, administration that all need to be accounted for in the overall business plan. Those numbers are not included in the cost of goods.

If you just look at cost of goods which include labor the difference between a Sadowsky and an MIM Fender are going to be significant.

 

[zontar]

It is true that something is worth what people will pay for it, then there's supply & demand, and also greed factors into it, among other factors
Some people will pay extra for prestige.

Me?
All my guitars/basses were under $1000 to buy at the time I bought them.
But they might not be that simple to replace.

 

[Korladis]

I'm not talking about how much people believe they're worth, I mean if you take into account the wood, cutting the wood, the routing, paint job, electronics, and everything else that goes into making the bass, how much is it truly worth?

I just don't understand why some basses are listed as $1000 more than other basses that seem very similar

It depends entirely on your definition of "worth."

Firstly, in a market economy, there's no absolute worth of anything. Value is determined at the buyer's end, not the producer's.

Musical instruments are particularly hard to nail down a value to, because so much of their functionality is entirely subjective. Beyond visual aesthetic appeal, which is subjective, there's also playability, which is also pretty subjective because everyone's hands are different; what's comfortable to one person may not be to another player. And then there's the actual goal of musical instruments, to produce a pleasing sound. What constitutes "a pleasing sound" is going to vary widely across the population.

A Fender Custom Shop Jazz Bass might be worth a lot to someone who really likes jazz basses, but not as much to me, because I don't particularly. Whether it's worth as much more than a standard MIA jazz bass as they charge for it is subjective, as well. To some, the differences might warrant the increase in price. For others, the differences might be too small to matter.

Some can't imagine paying more than $1000 for a bass. I can, because that's what my favorite basses cost.

 

[Watchootognbout]

In short,a bass is worth what you are willing to pay.

 

[el_Bajo_Verde]

I'm not talking about how much people believe they're worth

 

[Bob Throb]

With the Squiers it is kind of hit and miss but if you get a good one they are as good or better then their American or Mexican

counterpart costing 10 times more . It's all in how well they are set up really. This stock P Bass sounds and plays great. As good as any P Bass you might encounter. Bought it used for a hundred bucs. LOL

 

[Korladis]

You might not intend to be, but what people believe they are worth is what they are worth.

Nothing has any absolute value or worth. Money is essentially representative of access to resources needed for life. How much you'd be willing to trade for anything is going to vary a lot depending on your circumstances, and how much that thing appeals to you.

There is no absolute value for a bass, any more than there is for anything else.