How much are MIJ Squier Basses really worth?

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

There are other reasons to buy or love an instrument, as you can see looking at my collection. But seriously: have you ever seen MIJ Fenders with some of the flaws I've shown on my 70s US Fender basses? And mine are two examples of the better ones.

MIJ Fender instruments can have and actually have defects like most mass-manufactured things ... the first 2/3 years of Squier JV production may have likely been characterized by a tangible higher quality level which, however, reduced transitioning towards MIJ Fender with subsequent re-negotiations of the original agreement's terms ..
On the other hand, yes, there surely are bad examples of MIA Fender production in the 70s (especially from 1976 onwards), but there are also good instruments for sale belonging to that period .. personally I would not invest too much money in a late 70s Fender instrument .. whether or not a given amount of money may be judged adequate for a 70s MIA Fender and not for a MIJ Squier JV or viceversa basically depends on the perception the market has concerning the value of the two lines of instruments, looked at along a given time-frame ...
However, I'm under the impression that the used instruments market constantly needs the generation of new "heroes" in order to preserve a certain margin of profitability for the die-hard operators of the sector .. hence, after the celebration of the greatness of the 60s and 70s instruments, which were defined as the "vintage" ones, now we witness that of the Squier JV ones, immediately followed by that of the Fullerton-era AVRIs ...

I personally would have to get exceptionally good feelings in playing one of those instruments to pay what the used market's sellers want to receive from the sale, but i think that a jazz bass or a P bass are a jazz bass or P bass now as they were in that period ... the bridge, pickups, electronics and necks of the contemporary Fender MIA's production are better than what was installed on the same instrument models at the beginning of the 80s, for not to talk about the finish, aside from that of the instruments which were finished in nitro ...
The prices are surely hyped, that's why, notwithstanding the inherent quality of the Squier JV basses, I would not buy anything for more than 450Eur belonging to that series (slightly more for Fullerton-AVRI instruments unless they are in a true NOS condition) ...

 

[DirkP]

MIJ Fender instruments can have and actually have defects like most mass-manufactured things ... the first 2/3 years of Squier JV production may have likely been characterized by a tangible higher quality level which, however, reduced transitioning towards MIJ Fender with subsequent re-negotiations of the original agreement's terms ..
On the other hand, yes, there surely are bad examples of MIA Fender production in the 70s (especially from 1976 onwards), but there are also good instruments for sale belonging to that period .. personally I would not invest too much money in a late 70s Fender instrument .. whether or not a given amount of money may be judged adequate for a 70s MIA Fender and not for a MIJ Squier JV or viceversa basically depends on the perception the market has concerning the value of the two lines of instruments, looked at along a given time-frame ...
However, I'm under the impression that the used instruments market constantly needs the generation of new "heroes" in order to preserve a certain margin of profitability for the die-hard operators of the sector .. hence, after the celebration of the greatness of the 60s and 70s instruments, which were defined as the "vintage" ones, now we witness that of the Squier JV ones, immediately followed by that of the Fullerton-era AVRIs ...

I personally would have to get exceptionally good feelings in playing one of those instruments to pay what the used market's sellers want to receive from the sale, but i think that a jazz bass or a P bass are a jazz bass or P bass now as they were in that period ... the bridge, pickups, electronics and necks of the contemporary Fender MIA's production are better than what was installed on the same instrument models at the beginning of the 80s, for not to talk about the finish, aside from that of the instruments which were finished in nitro ...
The prices are surely hyped, that's why, notwithstanding the inherent quality of the Squier JV basses, I would not buy anything for more than 450Eur belonging to that series (slightly more for Fullerton-AVRI instruments unless they are in a true NOS condition) ...

I agree with most of what you say. For me the reason I love some of my older instruments is simply their looks and feel from natural ageing and being played a lot. Or I simply got crazy and couldn't imagine a life without owning a P with a large TV logo anymore. And it had to be an original one.
None of the arguments that state older instruments sound better has ever convinced me. Many of the actual instruments build in the US, Japan or even China or Indonesia are as good or better than instruments built 20 or 30 or 40 years before. I had most illusions about vintage and US instruments before I could afford them There isn't that much rocket science in a P or a J. Just pieces of cheap furniture wood combined with some screws and cheap sheet metal combined with very primitive electronics.

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

I agree with most of what you say. For me the reason I love some of my older instruments is simply their looks and feel from natural ageing and being played a lot. Or I simply got crazy and couldn't imagine a life without owning a P with a large TV logo anymore. And it had to be an original one.
None of the arguments that state older instruments sound better has ever convinced me. Many of the actual instruments build in the US, Japan or even China or Indonesia are as good or better than instruments built 20 or 30 or 40 years before. I had most illusions about vintage and US instruments before I could afford them There isn't that much rocket science in a P or a J. Just pieces of cheap furniture wood combined with some screws and cheap sheet metal combined with very primitive electronics.

Yes ... the way we appreciate or like particular instruments can be very personal sometimes .. I will consider myself lucky and complete when I will finally find an instrument which I may play seamlessly and without getting fatigued, having the general tone qualities or signature of a P-bass

 

[-Asdfgh-]

MIJ Fender instruments can have and actually have defects like most mass-manufactured things ... the first 2/3 years of Squier JV production may have likely been characterized by a tangible higher quality level which, however, reduced transitioning towards MIJ Fender with subsequent re-negotiations of the original agreement's terms ..
On the other hand, yes, there surely are bad examples of MIA Fender production in the 70s (especially from 1976 onwards), but there are also good instruments for sale belonging to that period .. personally I would not invest too much money in a late 70s Fender instrument .. whether or not a given amount of money may be judged adequate for a 70s MIA Fender and not for a MIJ Squier JV or viceversa basically depends on the perception the market has concerning the value of the two lines of instruments, looked at along a given time-frame ...
However, I'm under the impression that the used instruments market constantly needs the generation of new "heroes" in order to preserve a certain margin of profitability for the die-hard operators of the sector .. hence, after the celebration of the greatness of the 60s and 70s instruments, which were defined as the "vintage" ones, now we witness that of the Squier JV ones, immediately followed by that of the Fullerton-era AVRIs ...

I personally would have to get exceptionally good feelings in playing one of those instruments to pay what the used market's sellers want to receive from the sale, but i think that a jazz bass or a P bass are a jazz bass or P bass now as they were in that period ... the bridge, pickups, electronics and necks of the contemporary Fender MIA's production are better than what was installed on the same instrument models at the beginning of the 80s, for not to talk about the finish, aside from that of the instruments which were finished in nitro ...
The prices are surely hyped, that's why, notwithstanding the inherent quality of the Squier JV basses, I would not buy anything for more than 450Eur belonging to that series (slightly more for Fullerton-AVRI instruments unless they are in a true NOS condition) ...

I'm looking forward to when my Squier Standard PJs are worth as much as my house (combined, not individually, as that would be silly). They are original apart from replacement foam under the pickups.

 

[Wisebass]

Hi Dirk

Just pieces of cheap furniture wood combined with some screws and cheap sheet metal combined with very primitive electronics.

….and you can' t build a bass cheaper than Leo Fender did!

Achtung! The Fender mafia is watching us!

Fenders have mojo and magic fairy dust! (that' s why we love them)

Like I posted before, I bought a used (only one year old ) '83 Squier in autumn 1984.

It came with a case (remember those cheap brown hardcases for 35,- DM? ) a 6m cable (20,- DM)

and a set of Rotos (45,- DM)

I payed 500,- DM for the lot! (400,- for the bass)

In 1985 I bought my '73 Fender Jazz (+ cable + strap + strings) for 850,- DM the lot.


I will never pay the prices they ask today! Collector prices (up to £1500!!! for a Squier? )

are not my cup of tea!

All those heartbreaking storys, of "Californian workers

who cried when they saw their first Japanese Squier" …

Or "the legendary Japanese craftsmanship and quality that became a cornerstone of Fender' s history" …

That' s good marketing!

But that changes nothing to me! For me a used bass is just a used bass!

No matter where it comes from and when it was made.


Greetings

Wise(b)ass

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Given how basic a Fender P is (especially the SCPB of 1951) it's amazing that they work, were popular, and remain so. It is mostly (neck excepted) some lumps of wood, a chunk of flat plastic, some bent metal and some basic potentiometers, wires, and a magnet. I know someone who has a hobby making Fenderish guitars and he now even makes the necks from scratch and that's the complicated bit. He does some beautiful finishes too. I'd struggle to get those results but a basic LPB Fender-type bass isn't rocket science, especially a P bass with one pickup and no switching.

 

[giacomobass]

Okay. Personal preferences are fine, everybody's got their own. However, I still don't get, and it seems to me that no one yet has managed to come up with a rational explanation of, why JV Squiers are seen being sold for two to three times as much, on average, the current used market price of CIJ Fenders. Anyone? <Munches popcorn>

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Okay. Personal preferences are fine, everybody's got their own. However, I still don't get, and it seems to me that no one yet has managed to come up with a rational explanation of, why JV Squiers are seen being sold for two to three times as much, on average, than the current market price of CIJ Fenders. Anyone? <Munches popcorn>

People who were born in the 80s who want a slice of the 'magic' of the period and now have the money to bid up prices on limited supply I'd guess. As said before (and I wasn't born in the 80s) I'd get another one if I could. I'm just not likely to pay over £1000 for one unless I fall over a wad of £50 notes in the street.

 

[giacomobass]

People who were born in the 80s who want a slice of the 'magic' of the period and now have the money to bid up prices on limited supply I'd guess. As said before (and I wasn't born in the 80s) I'd get another one if I could. I'm just not likely to pay over £1000 for one unless I fall over a wad of £50 notes in the street.

Why not buy an 80s Fender (MIJ, or even MIA) and save?

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Why not buy an 80s Fender (MIJ, or even MIA) and save?

I haven't looked at the price of 80s MIA Fenders, but the price of early MIJs has gone up too. In the UK MIAs are relatively expensive to begin with.

 

[giacomobass]

I haven't looked at the price of 80s MIA Fenders, but the price of early MIJs has gone up too. In the UK MIAs are relatively expensive to begin with.

Yes, that trend is global, as is the market for used instruments today; however, due to higher availability, it's still much easier to get an 80s MIJ bass for a reasonable price than one of those rarer and mysteriously coveted Squier JVs... So, what else do they have to justify the higher price, apart from being scarce?

 

[Tad]

Okay. Personal preferences are fine, everybody's got their own. However, I still don't get, and it seems to me that no one yet has managed to come up with a rational explanation of, why JV Squiers are seen being sold for two to three times as much, on average, the current used market price of CIJ Fenders. Anyone? <Munches popcorn>

I think that the consistent quality and the rarity of the JV's has something to do with it. Especially in the case of an unmodified, well kept example. I would imagine that a significant number were modified. Realistically that should kill any collectability, but for some folks it doesn't.

True JV's, not SQ's or E Series, were only made for less than two years. They were only made from April 1982 through February 1984. There were less than 100,000 of all models, Stratocasters, Telecasters, Precisions, and Jazzes, manufactured. True JV serial numbers only go through JV9xxxx.

I can't speak for all JV's but as I said earlier, mine is a very good example. It was my only bass for 21 years, I was in the Army and moved often so I did not accumulate a lot of gear. I've played my PB57 on four continents. I own 12 other basses to include three MIA Fenders. I think that my JV is just as good as any of them.

That being said, if I hadn't owned mine for the last 37 years and known the exact provenance and quality of it, I am pretty positive that I would not pay the exorbitant prices that I have seen asked for JV's. Especially one that has been modified or "improved."

For me though, my JV '57 Precision is priceless, even if someone else believes that it is worthless or overhyped.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Yes, that trend is global, as is the market for used instruments today; however, due to higher availability, it's still much easier to get an 80s MIJ bass for a reasonable price than one of those rarer and mysteriously coveted Squier JVs... So, what else do they have to justify the higher price, apart from being scarce?

Probably availability since JVs were produced for only a very limited subset of the 1980s.

 

[reddog]

I'm looking forward to when my Squier Standard PJs are worth as much as my house (combined, not individually, as that would be silly). They are original apart from replacement foam under the pickups.

Side note: Those "Standards", made in Indonesia, can be very good, too.
Got one, NOS, (New, Old stock?) from a pawn shop that had a terrific neck.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Side note: Those "Standards", made in Indonesia, can be very good, too.
Got one, NOS, (New, Old stock?) from a pawn shop that had a terrific neck.

I like the necks. I have two. I very nearly got a third (I would have kicked out my parts Jazz to make space).

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Side note: Those "Standards", made in Indonesia, can be very good, too.
Got one, NOS, (New, Old stock?) from a pawn shop that had a terrific neck.

I like the necks. I have two of the basses (PJ). I very nearly got a third (I would have kicked out my parts Jazz to make space).

 

[DirkP]

Okay. Personal preferences are fine, everybody's got their own. However, I still don't get, and it seems to me that no one yet has managed to come up with a rational explanation of, why JV Squiers are seen being sold for two to three times as much, on average, the current used market price of CIJ Fenders. Anyone? <Munches popcorn>

JV Squiers are kind of special. But I don't see them getting for extraordinary prices here in Germany. They often go for a bit more than CIJ Fender instruments.
This has a historic background. There was a time during the transition period from CBS, where no Fenders were produced in the US, only in Japan. There wasn't a reason to build the japanese instruments with lower quality materials in order to justify the prices for the US instruments. The JV series was very accurate and built to high standards, the SQ instruments a little less so. The first japanese Fender instruments with a Fender logo were of lesser quality (no alder or ash, only basswood, ceramic pickups etc.), only the necks were of the highest quality.
Fender didn't want to compete with themselves...
This changed a bit later.
And you always have to consider that demanding a price does not mean getting it. A few years back I have seen a JV offered for 1.200,- at Ebay but it was there for months.

In Germany's equivalent of Talkbass, there are two JVs offered now. One for 890,- and one for 1.150,- Euros. But the one for 1.150,- is an absolute rarity. It is a domestic one, it has a factory nitro finish. It is in original condition. And it has a Fender logo.
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[giacomobass]

In Germany's equivalent of Talkbass, there are two JVs offered now. One for 890,- and one for 1.150,- Euros. But the one for 1.150,- is an absolute rarity. It is a domestic one, it has a factory nitro finish. It is in original condition. And it has a Fender logo.
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What's the difference between that and an alder body CIJ PB57-US, apart from the finish (nitro vs. poly)?

 

[giacomobass]

Wait, 40.5 mm nut width?? Talk about accurate vintage specs...

 

[DirkP]

What's the difference between that and an alder body CIJ PB57-US, apart from the finish (nitro vs. poly)?

In this case only the rarety and the age I guess. None of these were officially exported from Japan.