How much do cabs affect tone?

[JimmyM]

Bull, like anything, it depends on the quality of the gear you're using. Some headphones are voiced to be relatively flat, some are not. And yes, full range systems would probably be closer to what you'd hear out of headphones, though bass cabs such as the fEarful have some voicing tweaks that would make them work more optimally for bass as opposed to things like PA cabs which are designed to put all the music through and not just bass.

So it's not a question that has cut and dried answers.

 

[Road Bull]

Bull, like anything, it depends on the quality of the gear you're using. Some headphones are voiced to be relatively flat, some are not. And yes, full range systems would probably be closer to what you'd hear out of headphones, though bass cabs such as the fEarful have some voicing tweaks that would make them work more optimally for bass as opposed to things like PA cabs which are designed to put all the music through and not just bass.

So it's not a question that has cut and dried answers.

Thanks JimmyM. I figured as much as far as headphone equipment variables are concerned. I was just wondering because I often get to what I feel is a great tone coming though my headphones when plugged into my amp, but when I change to my cab I need to do some tweaking to try to get back to the tone I had. I always thought it might me easier if I had a somewhat flat response cab that essentially mimicked what headphones were doing, or what a D.I. signal might be.

 

[scottfeldstein]

So here is a follow up question...

I understand headphones range quite a bit in quality, but would you say that headphones plugged into your amp are more "true" representations of what your amp sounds like before the cab colors it? Or do headphones simply do the same thing due to frequency response limitations?

And would full range systems like fEARFul/fEARless be closer to the same sounds that are coming though headphones that are plugged into the amp?

Cabs often give a certain coloration to your tone, a certain built-in EQ, if you want to think of it that way. Some are middy. Some are woofy. Some are crisp. And a few are very neutral and uncolored. Note that this doesn't necessarily make them "better" in any aesthetic sense. You might like the woofy cab because that's the sound you're after and it makes it easier for you to dial that tone in on your amp.

Headphones are the same way, I think. One thing that's all the rage is to pump up the low frequencies so that kids listening to their hip-hop can be like "the cars that go boom." But some headphones are made to be as full-frequency and as uncolored as possible. These are created for, and marketed to, studio monitoring needs. It's what recording, radio and tv studio folks use to hear what's going on. It's the kind of headphones I have myself.

I'd like a cab that's like that, too. I'd prefer to have a full-range, hi-fi cab that's as uncolored as possible--and to do my EQing on my amp and bass. Probably a fEARful cab or similar will be closest. THat's what I'm told, anyway.

 

[fdeck]

Thanks JimmyM. I figured as much as far as headphone equipment variables are concerned. I was just wondering because I often get to what I feel is a great tone coming though my headphones when plugged into my amp, but when I change to my cab I need to do some tweaking to try to get back to the tone I had. I always thought it might me easier if I had a somewhat flat response cab that essentially mimicked what headphones were doing, or what a D.I. signal might be.

Nothing is ever perfect, but a full range speaker would get you closer to that ideal. A number of TB'ers over the years have talked about making the effort to perfect their studio sound, and then wanting to be able to reproduce that sound on stage. What you're asking for, between headphones and speakers, seems similar.

Here are some things that typically happen with bass speakers:

1. They don't reproduce the lowest fundamental of the bass at full amplitude. The frequency at which significant rolloff starts to occur is typically above 40 Hz, and can be as high as 100 - 120 Hz for some "classic" sealed systems. Even the so called full range bass speakers are seldom flat down to 40 Hz.

1a. Some systems have a "hump" around 100 - 120 Hz.

2. What you get above ~ 3 kHz with one-way systems depends on cone mechanics, and varies greatly from one driver type to another.

3. Polar response: How it sounds depends on where you sit. Getting uniform polar response increases the complexity of the design, i.e., having to go from 1- to 2- and 3-way systems.

 

[JimmyM]

If that were my goal to sound like what you hear in headphones, I probably would look to 3-way cabs. Smaller builders seem to have taken that market and run with it, and now there are a lot of these type cabs to choose from and you don't have to build them yourself

 

[rapidfirerob]

Quite a bit. Compare it to your stereo system, or these days, surround sound possibly. If you have a great amp, CD player, record player, etc. and not so great speakers, it won't sound so wonderful.

 

[Road Bull]

Nothing is ever perfect, but a full range speaker would get you closer to that ideal. A number of TB'ers over the years have talked about making the effort to perfect their studio sound, and then wanting to be able to reproduce that sound on stage. What you're asking for, between headphones and speakers, seems similar.

Here are some things that typically happen with bass speakers:

1. They don't reproduce the lowest fundamental of the bass at full amplitude. The frequency at which significant rolloff starts to occur is typically above 40 Hz, and can be as high as 100 - 120 Hz for some "classic" sealed systems. Even the so called full range bass speakers are seldom flat down to 40 Hz.

1a. Some systems have a "hump" around 100 - 120 Hz.

2. What you get above ~ 3 kHz with one-way systems depends on cone mechanics, and varies greatly from one driver type to another.

3. Polar response: How it sounds depends on where you sit. Getting uniform polar response increases the complexity of the design, i.e., having to go from 1- to 2- and 3-way systems.

Thanks for the information. It sounds like a good set of flat response headphones might be the "control" sound of your bass and head, and while you might get close to the sound, even in a full range 3-way cab scenario, that it is only a starting point for so many other variables. Cab placement, indoors, outdoors, the acoustics of the room and so on and so on. Still, it sounds like a cool starting point option.

And sometimes it is nice to be able to use the cab to complete the sound. For instance an Ampeg sealed 810 has a very distinct sound to it. Everyone knows the sound of an 810 matched up with an SVT. But it would be cool to be able to have a bunch of different heads matched up with the same cab, lets say the 810 for argument, to note how much the cab affects the tone of various amps.

If that were my goal to sound like what you hear in headphones, I probably would look to 3-way cabs. Smaller builders seem to have taken that market and run with it, and now there are a lot of these type cabs to choose from and you don't have to build them yourself

Yup. I am trying to save my pennies for some such awesomeness down the line. It's just that logging on here makes it easy to find other distractions to spend your money on.