How much per song to record?

[mrcbass]

First, I know the answer depends on a lot of factors. Situation and then my factors:

I'm connecting with an originals artist who, according to the CL ad needs a bass player "to record his tracks and gig".

I haven't worked anything out or even met the guy yet - that's pending.

I'm not some masterful session player, but I'm very confident I can deliver quality lines and record them for him.

I'm a little concerned about the possibility of him wanting his recording done before he books gigs, which could leave me in the cold as far as monetary compensation. So I'm considering presenting him with this option in order to demand a little respect for my time:
I'll charge you XX per song to record. If you actually produce gigs, I'll repay you YY (say 50% of my gig share) per gig until you've recovered your cost of my recording. He gets his recordings and any financial gain that those produce, I get some payment for my time and effort - which he gets back if he produces the promised gigs. Feels like a win-win to me.

I'm not expecting to get rich and don't want to bleed the guy, but I also don't want to deliver recordings for him and then find that he can't actually book the gigs - I've been down that road and while the crating was fun - and a great experience - the lack of payday was not.

The one pitfall from his perspective is that I could quit the band during the "pay back" period. If I'm dismissed, that's his call.

So I know I'll get a lot of "don't offer the payback thing" responses, which I'll largely ignore, but my primary question is:

What is a reasonable rate to charge to record a song for someone?
Parameters:
Song style:Classic rock feel (a couple of demos he provided were not at all challenging).
Amount of time per song: Let's assume it'll average 8 hours to chart, create lines, polish, rehearse and record one song.
Travel time: Hoping to be able to record at home - if I have to go to his house, it's about 20 minutes one way.

As I said, I'm not a session player, but a competent bassist who can deliver what he needs.

The gigs I play tend to be $50-$100 per person range for a 8-12 hour (door-to-door round trip) commitment - that's the only way I can quantify my "value" as a bassist.

And again, I'm not looking to bleed the guy - just want to provide some incentive to actually book gigs. I'm thinking that the $50-100 per song range is enough to provide that incentive. Aside from the "it's worth whatever we both agree it's worth" camp, is that reasonable for both of us?

The guy says he has about 20 songs ready, so he's looking at a couple thousand dollars to record them all even at a measly $50 per.

Thoughts?

 

[Richard Lindsey]

Well, I know you said you'd ignore replies like this, but here it is anyway: Never, ever "pay back" money you legitimately earned from your musical work. That's just a very wrong concept. The guy is not giving you a loan. There's nothing to pay back. You owe him nothing in monetary terms. Either he hires you for X amount or he doesn't.

That said, there are a couple ways you could go. One is that you could do the recordings for free in expectation of being part of upcoming paying gigs. Whether that seems like a sensible investment of time and effort depends on what you think the prospects are. If the prospects seem good, that might be worthwhile for you.

It might be good also to clarify with the singer just what he's looking for--as in, band member or hired gun? If it's the former, decide how interested you are and how committed you want to be. If it's the latter, set your rate and expect to get it every time. To be a hired gun and not get paid is kinda the worst of all worlds.

Another path is that you could simply charge for recording now and then take up the gig issue if and when any gigs materialize.

I'm not trying to dog you, but the process you proposed in the OP just seems ill-advised to me. If gigs materialize after the recording, that's great, but it doesn't mean you somehow didn't do the work on the recording. That effort doesn't get less in retrospect, and it makes zero sense that you should even contemplate giving back money you earned.

 

[Chasarms]

Why is the time and talent spent developing and recording the bass lines less valuable than the time and talent associated with performing live?

 

[friskinator]

First, I know the answer depends on a lot of factors. Situation and then my factors:

I'm connecting with an originals artist who, according to the CL ad needs a bass player "to record his tracks and gig".

I haven't worked anything out or even met the guy yet - that's pending.

I'm not some masterful session player, but I'm very confident I can deliver quality lines and record them for him.

I'm a little concerned about the possibility of him wanting his recording done before he books gigs, which could leave me in the cold as far as monetary compensation. So I'm considering presenting him with this option in order to demand a little respect for my time:
I'll charge you XX per song to record. If you actually produce gigs, I'll repay you YY (say 50% of my gig share) per gig until you've recovered your cost of my recording. He gets his recordings and any financial gain that those produce, I get some payment for my time and effort - which he gets back if he produces the promised gigs. Feels like a win-win to me.

I'm not expecting to get rich and don't want to bleed the guy, but I also don't want to deliver recordings for him and then find that he can't actually book the gigs - I've been down that road and while the crating was fun - and a great experience - the lack of payday was not.

The one pitfall from his perspective is that I could quit the band during the "pay back" period. If I'm dismissed, that's his call.

So I know I'll get a lot of "don't offer the payback thing" responses, which I'll largely ignore, but my primary question is:

What is a reasonable rate to charge to record a song for someone?
Parameters:
Song style:Classic rock feel (a couple of demos he provided were not at all challenging).
Amount of time per song: Let's assume it'll average 8 hours to chart, create lines, polish, rehearse and record one song.
Travel time: Hoping to be able to record at home - if I have to go to his house, it's about 20 minutes one way.

As I said, I'm not a session player, but a competent bassist who can deliver what he needs.

The gigs I play tend to be $50-$100 per person range for a 8-12 hour (door-to-door round trip) commitment - that's the only way I can quantify my "value" as a bassist.

And again, I'm not looking to bleed the guy - just want to provide some incentive to actually book gigs. I'm thinking that the $50-100 per song range is enough to provide that incentive. Aside from the "it's worth whatever we both agree it's worth" camp, is that reasonable for both of us?

The guy says he has about 20 songs ready, so he's looking at a couple thousand dollars to record them all even at a measly $50 per.

Thoughts?

Unless this guy has a good paying day job, I'm guessing the budget for his studio bass tracks is zero. And the studio time/payment should have no connection to the potential gigs. He's an unknown original artist - how does he plan on making money?

If the project interests you, I'd go ahead and plan on not getting paid. But if you're ok with doing it for the fun or experience, no judgment.

 

[LBS-bass]

I did a few tracks for an artist here recently. He offered me $100 per session; sessions were a couple of hours each. We managed to record a couple of tracks per session, so it worked out to about $50 per song. I was happy with that. I threw in some backing vocals for him even though I hadn't been asked for that. He used them in the final mix.

If I were recording from home I'd charge about the same. Right now I'm tracking some stuff for a friend but I'm not going to charge him anything.

 

[StyleOverShow]

I think it is worth your while to give his/her stuff a listen and if you think you can add something do the session(s) for free, if you have the time. In the end you’ve increased your body of work, made new network connections, are tied into the next steps of this budding ‘star’ and you’ve exercised your artistic muscle yet again.

 

[el murdoque]

Thoughts?

Are you negotiating from a position of power?

It sounds like the guy has to depend on you for some reason. If not, what's keeping him from picking someone who will record for free as long as he's promised the gig money later on ?

 

[LBS-bass]

I did a few tracks for an artist here recently. He offered me $100 per session; sessions were a couple of hours each. We managed to record a couple of tracks per session, so it worked out to about $50 per song. I was happy with that. I threw in some backing vocals for him even though I hadn't been asked for that. He used them in the final mix.

If I were recording from home I'd charge about the same. Right now I'm tracking some stuff for a friend but I'm not going to charge him anything.

BTW this guy was also talking about gigging the material eventually but he didn't make that part of the recording deal. He paid me for my time and work. I got sick partway through the sessions and another local guy who is a friend finished the rest of the tracks for him, he may end up doing the gigs but I wasn't that interested to begin with so I don't really care. You should get paid for the work you do. You never know what else might happen.

 

[JRA]

Thoughts?

you could simply charge for recording now and then take up the gig issue if and when any gigs materialize.

 

[SoCal80s]

A lot depends on whether you're becoming bandmates with the guy, or just a hired gun. If hired, then quote him whatever you feel you're worth ($50 per song sounds reasonable as a start), but be prepared for him to go with someone who will do it for less. If bandmates, then ask for a cut of gross sales (which will be small, but may lead to better things down the road), say 10%? I suggest working out compensation for gigs as a completely separate transaction.

 

[MDBass]

First, I know the answer depends on a lot of factors. Situation and then my factors:

I'm connecting with an originals artist who, according to the CL ad needs a bass player "to record his tracks and gig".

I haven't worked anything out or even met the guy yet - that's pending.

I'm not some masterful session player, but I'm very confident I can deliver quality lines and record them for him.

I'm a little concerned about the possibility of him wanting his recording done before he books gigs, which could leave me in the cold as far as monetary compensation. So I'm considering presenting him with this option in order to demand a little respect for my time:
I'll charge you XX per song to record. If you actually produce gigs, I'll repay you YY (say 50% of my gig share) per gig until you've recovered your cost of my recording. He gets his recordings and any financial gain that those produce, I get some payment for my time and effort - which he gets back if he produces the promised gigs. Feels like a win-win to me.

I'm not expecting to get rich and don't want to bleed the guy, but I also don't want to deliver recordings for him and then find that he can't actually book the gigs - I've been down that road and while the crating was fun - and a great experience - the lack of payday was not.

The one pitfall from his perspective is that I could quit the band during the "pay back" period. If I'm dismissed, that's his call.

So I know I'll get a lot of "don't offer the payback thing" responses, which I'll largely ignore, but my primary question is:

What is a reasonable rate to charge to record a song for someone?
Parameters:
Song style:Classic rock feel (a couple of demos he provided were not at all challenging).
Amount of time per song: Let's assume it'll average 8 hours to chart, create lines, polish, rehearse and record one song.
Travel time: Hoping to be able to record at home - if I have to go to his house, it's about 20 minutes one way.

As I said, I'm not a session player, but a competent bassist who can deliver what he needs.

The gigs I play tend to be $50-$100 per person range for a 8-12 hour (door-to-door round trip) commitment - that's the only way I can quantify my "value" as a bassist.

And again, I'm not looking to bleed the guy - just want to provide some incentive to actually book gigs. I'm thinking that the $50-100 per song range is enough to provide that incentive. Aside from the "it's worth whatever we both agree it's worth" camp, is that reasonable for both of us?

The guy says he has about 20 songs ready, so he's looking at a couple thousand dollars to record them all even at a measly $50 per.

Thoughts?

I charge $250 a song unless it’s a repeat client or bulk work in which case I can work a lower rate if needed.

Gigs are a $150 minimum with the same caveats: never, EVER, would I pay someone back the money I earned from a recording session in order to gig with them.

Even for 20 songs that I really loved, for a very nice guy, I wouldn’t consider anything less than $2k.

 

[MDBass]

Why is the time and talent spent developing and recording the bass lines less valuable than the time and talent associated with performing live?

It isn’t.

 

[arbiterusa]

I'll prep from demos/chord charts/old band recordings for free, but I'm a flat $100/hour for recording and rehearsals, and that includes re-recording or rehearsing anything, and lastly I'm a hired gun, not a bandmate. This set of demands eliminates the "I listened to this and feel it needs to go in a more...different direction" death of a million edits that is the inevitable fate of all such projects.

As to gigs, if he doesn't have them in the hopper now he won't have them in the future, so you won't have to worry about this very odd "pay it back" thing you've got going. Which I absolutely would not do. I'm a professional, pay me for my time like one.

 

[lermgalieu]

Just record the lines, get paid, and that’s that. I’ve gotten anywhere from $100-$250 for 1-3 song sessions. Depends. I’m sure there are others on here who command much more.

 

[Biggbass]

Studio hours + expenses (session players, etc)
final cost depends on the extent of production

 

[Dabndug]

Hourly rate. Some "artists" will want a gazillion tales whilst others will be satisfied with the first fluent one. This makes "pay by the song" a risky proposition.

@arbiterusa 's $100 an hour is reasonable if you are well prepared and professional.

 

[pbass2]

Plenty of good advice here. Don't do these sessions for free. That's crazy. This is not some buddy situation (we've all done those for better or worse). You should be paid. How much depends on how much he can afford vs. how much you want to do it. I've certainly done sessions for what was essentially a token amount of money because I loved the music and wanted to be involved. But it needs to be something. And, is this guy really proposing you record 20 songs?!

 

[Rip Van Dan]

First, I know the answer depends on a lot of factors. Situation and then my factors:

I'm connecting with an originals artist who, according to the CL ad needs a bass player "to record his tracks and gig".

I haven't worked anything out or even met the guy yet - that's pending.

I'm not some masterful session player, but I'm very confident I can deliver quality lines and record them for him.

I'm a little concerned about the possibility of him wanting his recording done before he books gigs, which could leave me in the cold as far as monetary compensation. So I'm considering presenting him with this option in order to demand a little respect for my time:
I'll charge you XX per song to record. If you actually produce gigs, I'll repay you YY (say 50% of my gig share) per gig until you've recovered your cost of my recording. He gets his recordings and any financial gain that those produce, I get some payment for my time and effort - which he gets back if he produces the promised gigs. Feels like a win-win to me.

I'm not expecting to get rich and don't want to bleed the guy, but I also don't want to deliver recordings for him and then find that he can't actually book the gigs - I've been down that road and while the crating was fun - and a great experience - the lack of payday was not.

The one pitfall from his perspective is that I could quit the band during the "pay back" period. If I'm dismissed, that's his call.

So I know I'll get a lot of "don't offer the payback thing" responses, which I'll largely ignore, but my primary question is:

What is a reasonable rate to charge to record a song for someone?
Parameters:
Song style:Classic rock feel (a couple of demos he provided were not at all challenging).
Amount of time per song: Let's assume it'll average 8 hours to chart, create lines, polish, rehearse and record one song.
Travel time: Hoping to be able to record at home - if I have to go to his house, it's about 20 minutes one way.

As I said, I'm not a session player, but a competent bassist who can deliver what he needs.

The gigs I play tend to be $50-$100 per person range for a 8-12 hour (door-to-door round trip) commitment - that's the only way I can quantify my "value" as a bassist.

And again, I'm not looking to bleed the guy - just want to provide some incentive to actually book gigs. I'm thinking that the $50-100 per song range is enough to provide that incentive. Aside from the "it's worth whatever we both agree it's worth" camp, is that reasonable for both of us?

The guy says he has about 20 songs ready, so he's looking at a couple thousand dollars to record them all even at a measly $50 per.

Thoughts?

I have no idea what the going rate is now, but you can find out by contacting your local musicians union. Back when I did it, you were paid a set rate per hour for a minimum 3-hr. session, and you got one recording credit with the American Federation of Musicians (AFM), which is the musician's union. At the end of the year the recording companies paid out part of their profits to the AFM to disperse to those who have played on recording sessions according to how many credits they have. They do this instead of trying to keep track of which musicians played on which songs and how much royalty were they entitled to. This is still the way it works, but not sure what the rate is.

Now a LOT of recording is not going to be with people who are not hiring union musicians or paying union scale. So don't presume you can get whatever that union rate is and he's probably not going to pay any royalties or recording credits either. Nonetheless you should find out what the rate is and use that as a starting point for negotiations. Be aware that as an AFM member If you play a couple of 3-hr. union sessions a week, your recording credits can end up getting you a six figure disbursement at the end of the year.

Also, recording is done according to how long the session is, not how many songs you do. You would be expected to have all the songs you are going to record down pat before you come into the session. So all the rehearsal time will be on you and is NOT compensated for.

In the end with something like this, find out what the going rate is and then sit down and talk it out with the fellow to come to an agreement of what works for the two of you. Then right it up and have both of you sign it so there are no misunderstandings. In the end, you are still probably going to have to take him at his word as you learn 20-songs for no money up front though.

 

[Samatza]

I work in three hour blocks or part thereof. In other words if we get tracks down for two or three songs in three hours that's block one, if I have to stay and do another song for an hour I get the same three hours pay.

This may seem unfair however it forces focus and preparation so you're not sitting around waiting for some dude to perfect his guitar solo or vocal line. Go in, lay down the bass tracks and leave. If they get organised you can get a lot of tracks down in three hours. If not and you're getting paid by the hour, catch up on some sleep.

 

[Element Zero]