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How much power do we really need?

W

Waspinators

Guest
Jul 22, 2007
462
2
34
South Florida
#1
It seems like a lot of people on here say you need a 800w head on an 8x10 cab to play in a bar for 100 people. Do we really need even close to that much power, when you think about it? I mean, sure you might play in a large venue, but don't these places almost always have a PA system? The only times I can imagine a venue without a PA is a tiny one, in which a 100w 2x10 would probably do fine. Maybe it's because of how cool it looks to have 3 810s on stage?

I ask mostly because I've seen people playing at the local venue with small combos connected to the PA and it sounded just as good as the bands that show up with two full guitar stacks and an 8x10 Ampeg rig.
 
#2
Waspinators said:
It seems like a lot of people on here say you need a 800w head on an 8x10 cab to play in a bar for 100 people. Do we really need even close to that much power, when you think about it? I mean, sure you might play in a large venue, but don't these places almost always have a PA system? The only times I can imagine a venue without a PA is a tiny one, in which a 100w 2x10 would probably do fine. Maybe it's because of how cool it looks to have 3 810s on stage?

I ask mostly because I've seen people playing at the local venue with small combos connected to the PA and it sounded just as good as the bands that show up with two full guitar stacks and an 8x10 Ampeg rig.
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The good thing of having more watts is not how loud the rig sounds, but how good it sounds with the extra power. Besides that they can put you close to the guitar player or the percussionists and you'll be glad you had your 750+ amp with you that night. If you always play with the same band and at the same place you may go along very well with a small combo.
 
#3
Its not about getting the max wattage cause your going to turn it up all the way. You get less distortion out of any speakers if you aren't putting as must strain on the rig. Lets say you bought a 1000 watt amp/cab. If you wanted the best sound out of that cab, you probably wouldn't want to turn it up past 5 or 6. Then the sound is clear with no distortion.

This is usually the thought process with just about any speaker you buy (bass/guitar/surround system/etc.....)
 
#4
Waspinators said:
I mean, sure you might play in a large venue, but don't these places almost always have a PA system? The only times I can imagine a venue without a PA is a tiny one, in which a 100w 2x10 would probably do fine.
Click to expand...

i play in a punk band and we've toured all over the country. a big thing in the punk scene is the DIY ethic, if there's not a real "club" in the area, you rent a VFW hall, church hall, basement etc to make the show happen. some of these places can hold a good 5-800 people but only have PA support for vocals (and maybe the kick drum). that's when i'm glad i have my mesa 400+ and ampeg 810.
 
#5
i dont have an 810,not sure if i'll ever need it, but i do remember answering a question like this before, if you have an 810 and then you should have enough power to be able to drive them if needed,you can turn down if thats the only cabinet and head you have,but if you do play smaller gigs, then by all means you should have the smaller cabs and head, iuse two d112xlts eden and a wt330 for the most part, when i play outside or larger venues, i have a wt550/750 at 2 ohms and two d210xlts 4ohms each, i still dont need to turn up but i do have the power when needed, good luck
 
#6
allexcosta said:
The good thing of having more watts is not how loud the rig sounds, but how good it sounds with the extra power. Besides that they can put you close to the guitar player or the percussionists and you'll be glad you had your 750+ amp with you that night. If you always play with the same band and at the same place you may go along very well with a small combo.
Click to expand...


Quote = truth
 
#11
southshoreconor said:
i play in a punk band and we've toured all over the country. a big thing in the punk scene is the DIY ethic, if there's not a real "club" in the area, you rent a VFW hall, church hall, basement etc to make the show happen. some of these places can hold a good 5-800 people but only have PA support for vocals (and maybe the kick drum). that's when i'm glad i have my mesa 400+ and ampeg 810.
Click to expand...

Bigggg +1 to that, Cept' its a Southern hardcore band for me.

that scene is my home, and i definatly need my 450 watt head and 4x10 speaker cabinet and my 1x15 on top.

without it, nothing would be herd at all, cause theres no PA for the bass, its an inferior instrument (thats what they think)
 
#13
57pbass said:
IMO and IME..

having the additional headroom gives you many options...

In addition to the different volume levels you have available with hi power, it also effects your tone and your touch...
Click to expand...

True, especially about the tone and touch. I have been using my Walkabout Scout combo on the last couple of gigs. It sounds good, but it doesn't have a lot of volume for the backline. Volume. What happens? The note definition gets a little mushy. I started digging in hard. The resulting blisters forced me to turn up in the PA. I ended up crushing the rest of the band. If I had used a louder backline, I could've turned up the amp to take care of the note definition and taken some pressure off of the PA. I am really digging the Scout, but if I am going to continue to use it, I am going to probably add another Scout cab to get a bit more volume.
 
#17
if you are going to go through a pa system, then all you need is stage fill, i've seen gigs done with 100 watt combos, and i've seen them with 4 810 cabs, the same sound came out of the pa, the main thing is that you and your band mates hear you, if you go solo no pa,then you need the headroom,you also dont want to drown out the vocals,when we play a club,we try to be loud enough so that you can just hear the band enough to reconize the song,like it and come up to dance, you also dont want to drown out the people in the club, unless its that type of club, if you are gigging large venues,then you watch again the pa system, now if you are going into the system your sound person should tell you how loud you need to be, just remember, you and your band needs to hear each other,so blend
 
#19
My band normally play to no more than 100-150 people most weekends and we only have a vocal PA and normally for the type of circuit we are playing thats enough but last weekend we did some holiday camps. 500+ seater's.
We had to make do with our PA and while it was fine for the Vocals and some guitar i couldn't really put much bass through it.
We didnt have to fill the room, just the first half of it but even though i was using my MB SA450 (500watts in to 4ohms) and my Epifani UL212 (4 ohms) i was struggling to get a decent sound. Ok, it was a high wooden stage but i found that once i had reached just over halfway on the master that was it. I couldn't get any louder (well, enough to make a difference) as the sound was starting to compress.
While i could be heard it seemed pointless trying to get my usual tone.
I felt the rig was close to its max. slapping was out as the sound would just disappear.
I felt this was partly down to the stage sucking al the low end (although it sounded fine on stage) and also only having two drivers. Im sure a 410 would have been better but i was disappointed in the head maxing out so early.
My point is that we dont always have PA support and so as others have said, its better to have more than enough than not enough. You never know whats in store at a new venue. Even if you arent going to be playing to many people if you have a bad room room or stage you can quite easily have to play louder than you would expect (IME)
 
#20
Hey, I played for years with a GK800RB into an Eden D410T that was 8 ohms. I wasn't even using the full 300 watts. Surprisingly enough, it was always loud enough, so I guess you could say there is alot of more rig than you need going on these days! I too laugh at the 810 thing in smaller clubs. I can't imagine not having a smaller rig to use for gigs and only schlepping that thing to big ones or no pa support type gigs.
 

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