How much volume gain by adding a second cabinet?

[BassyBill]

Well Jimmy, I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with that. But I will say that for the cabs I own, the 15s put out WAY more lows than the 10s and that's why I like the combination of the two different size drivers. Other folks may have different experiences, of course - but for me, I love my 115 with the 210 on top.

Get yourself up to NY in August and we'll discuss this in detail!

 

[billfitzmaurice]

the reason it became popular is because of ads where they'd put a 410 and 115 together to show off more of their product line in the same ad space, and people would see it and say, "hey! little speakers for highs, big speakers for lows...brilliant!" thats what you call "engineering by looks."

The main reason manufacturers push them is that they use the same box with a different baffle to cover two SKUs. Engineering hell, but a bean-counter's heaven.

but for me, I love my 115 with the 210 on top.

If you're going to mix a 210 and 115 is a decent match. A 410 and 215 as well. A 410 and 115 is a mis-match.

 

[JimmyM]

bill, i suspect the reason your markbass cabs work so well together is because they probably have similar phase relationships. now stick my b-15 cab under it and see if you get the same good results

when i had my mini 112 markbass combo, i'd pair it with a b-15 cab, and it would only sound good if the voice coils were lined up dead even with each other. get as much as a half inch off and i could hear a noticeable lack of low end and a boost in upper mids. and when i got a second b-15 cab a short time later, the difference between the two rigs was night and day, it really was. that's what led to me selling the combo.

 

[alexwittscheck]

With two identical cabs the increase will be 6dB. With mixed cabs the result is unpredictable.
Twice the power is 3dB. Twice as loud is 10dB.

Yeah yeah yeah. Same difference. Haha.

 

[Gerhn Blanston]

however, the 410/115 combo just makes no sense on any level except looks, imho.

Even in my case? I run GK NEO410/NEO115-II & a 1001RB-II.

 

[Jim Carr]

With two identical cabs the increase will be 6dB. With mixed cabs the result is unpredictable. Twice the power is 3dB. Twice as loud is 10dB.

+1

I use two Epifani 210 (UL s1 and NYC) cabs with a Shuttle 6.0. Loud--Very loud--and very good low end/low mids if I want them. Get another PS 210. You will notice a big difference.

 

[Jim Carr]

Currently I play through a GenzBenz Shuttle 6 and an Epifani PS 210 (8 ohms). I recently played some outdoor gigs where I ended up pushing the GB more than I'd like ( I love the tube preamp, but I'd like a little more headroom so I'm not overdriving it constantly)...

IME, I'd use less of the leftmost gain, more of the next gain, and all or most of the master. I also add some lows and EQ the mids depending on the room. This is with a passive RW Jazz.

With an active bass (55-01D or my P/J for example), I run things much flatter, and EQ from the instrument. In any case, if you haven't yet, check out the threads on the shuttle where the designer discusses the gain staging.

 

[JimmyM]

Even in my case? I run GK NEO410/NEO115-II & a 1001RB-II.

gerhn (steve martin standup fan here too, btw), if you are happy with it, that's all that counts and that's all that should count. but yes, not even for your rig do the laws of audio physics stop working. if you were to take your 410 or 115 and pair each of them with matching cabs, i honestly believe that you would prefer them matching. i could be wrong, though. there is an argument that when you're amplifying an instrument you're creating a tone, not reproducing one, and i buy into that. it doesn't work for my tone creations to not match them, but it could work for you.

 

[Gerhn Blanston]

gerhn (steve martin standup fan here too, btw), if you are happy with it, that's all that counts and that's all that should count. but yes, not even for your rig do the laws of audio physics stop working. if you were to take your 410 or 115 and pair each of them with matching cabs, i honestly believe that you would prefer them matching. i could be wrong, though. there is an argument that when you're amplifying an instrument you're creating a tone, not reproducing one, and i buy into that. it doesn't work for my tone creations to not match them, but it could work for you.

I've had this set up for a year and have only used both cabs twice together so yer probably right. I bought two cabs so I could work two bands doing differnt styles so it's really not an issue at this point. I actually prefer the 115 over the 410. I've often wondered what two 15's would have sounded like. From all accounts it's like THUNDER.

 

[JimmyM]

I've had this set up for a year and have only used both cabs twice together so yer probably right. I bought two cabs so I could work two bands doing differnt styles so it's really not an issue at this point. I actually prefer the 115 over the 410. I've often wondered what two 15's would have sounded like. From all accounts it's like THUNDER.

i have both an 810 and two 115's and i love them both.

 

[rok51]

I honestly don't know. Bank on that. When I was using my Peavey cabs...I had two each of the 410TX and 115 BXBWs...Originally I used them in like pairs...one night, on a gig I decided I would substitute one of the 115s for the second 410. It worked. That's what I used from then until I downsized (thankfully!). In my case, the improvement could only be verified by a former stoner that played high decibel RnR without hearing protection for decades...


Kim

 

[Bassflute]

some people love their mixed cab rigs, and that's cool. but the science of audio doesn't magically stop applying to a mixed cab rig just because you like it. i love my old 810 but audio science will tell you that it beams mids and highs, and sure enough it does. and a mixed cab rig is going to have possible phasing issues as well. doesn't mean it won't sound great, but it does mean that the possibility of phasing issues is greater, and the results are unpredictable, whereas using identical cabs guarantees uniform results.

however, the 410/115 combo just makes no sense on any level except looks, imho. most 410's go as low as any 115, and have about twice the output with the same amount of wattage. the reason it became popular is because of ads where they'd put a 410 and 115 together to show off more of their product line in the same ad space, and people would see it and say, "hey! little speakers for highs, big speakers for lows...brilliant!" thats what you call "engineering by looks."

back in the bi-amped 80's, we used a single 15" with 2 or 4 10's because they went much deeper, so you had the quick punchy mid-bright tens with a nice thick deep 15" that extended WAY down. Everybody who was anybody was using them. Except you.

You're still somebody, man, even if you never joined the Spandex club...there's a JimmyM love thread going on right now, and I begrudgingly posted in it!

My Trace 1225V combo was perfectly voice with the 2x10+tweeter and the old 1153 15" cab - didn't need bi-amping. Sounded GREAT together and were made that way.

Cheers,
Cameron

 

[Korladis]

In answer to the OP's question, with his amp, a second 8 ohm cab will make the rig a LOT louder. Twice as loud? I don't know, but there will definitely be a noticeable volume increase.

As for rigs with mixed driver sizes, it all depends on the cabs involved. Generally, though, a 4x10" has about twice the speaker area of a 1x15", and so is usually louder and often handles more power.

2x10"s and 1x15"s have about the same speaker area, and so will often be about the same volume. Some will work together, some won't.

 

[kesslari]

thats what you call "engineering by looks."

Sounds like my old girlfriend!

 

[JimmyM]

back in the bi-amped 80's, we used a single 15" with 2 or 4 10's because they went much deeper, so you had the quick punchy mid-bright tens with a nice thick deep 15" that extended WAY down. Everybody who was anybody was using them. Except you.

right you are. i stuck doggedly to my v4b/810 until it burned up in a bar fire. then i bought an svt/810. even when they were out of fashion, that's what i used till i was about 36.

You're still somebody, man, even if you never joined the Spandex club...there's a JimmyM love thread going on right now, and I begrudgingly posted in it!

quite frankly it's a little embarrassing...but damned if i don't like it

My Trace 1225V combo was perfectly voice with the 2x10+tweeter and the old 1153 15" cab - didn't need bi-amping. Sounded GREAT together and were made that way.

again cameron, i'm not saying that they can't ever sound good. i'm just saying it opens up possibilities for phasing issues that some may not like.

 

[jonathanhughes]

Thanks, everyone! There's a ton of great information here. I'm leaning towards a 1x15 so I have another option for tone if I just want to bring one cabinet. But I'll probably contact Epifani and see if they have any comment about potential phase issues.


thanks!