How quickly can you pickup a new rhythm?

[aarono2690]

I had a lesson this past weekend and one of the things I want to work on is picking up a lead sheet or fake book chart and crafting different approaches to the song. For instance, you pick a random song in a fake book that you're unfamiliar with and you build a bass line from the most basic roots on the chord changes and slowly grow it to be more advanced and still have it sound good.

I started by playing the root note on each chord change and then we slowly added flavor by adding different intervals and rhythms to the song. My teacher then played a lick and he wanted me to try to copy it. I was struggling to copy it. The lick he was playing had notes on the 1, ghost note on the A of 2, 3, and of 3. In my head I understood what he was doing, but it took me about 10-15 minutes for me to lock into it to be able to do it on a consistent basis. I was rushing the "and of 3", playing double ghost notes on the "A of 2" and 3 instead of just on the "A of 2", etc.

I'm sure this is just a matter of me needing more practice, but it felt difficult to play the rhythm correctly while also combining the technique changes. I felt like the rhythm enters a new level of difficulty when you get into 16th notes and it felt like I needed to write down the rhythm and play it with a metronome for me to internalize it. I had better luck when I told him to simply play the rhythm and I'd follow him. It seemed like I was feeling the rhythm more than trying to mechanically reproduce it.

I try to always practice with a metronome, but is there anything else I should be doing to help me pick up new rhythms more efficiently?

 

[mambo4]

Don't beat yourself up. Truly novel rhythms -one you have not played before - take time to sink in.
Especially if it's given to you , rather than you just coming up with it.

back in my Salsa / Cuban music days I approached the typical Son Montuno thinking it sounded oh so easy
but I was only playing what I imagined it was, instead of the real thing.
took me a few months to get accurate and consistent., and probably over a year to really feel it
-and that was only after learning other rhythm section parts to see how the puzzle fits

I try to always practice with a metronome, but is there anything else I should be doing to help me pick up new rhythms more efficiently?

The single biggest improvement in my rhythm came from learning to read rhythm notation.
As in serious practice with rhythm exercises and metronome.
It is the difference between trying to remember how it goes, and knowing exactly how it goes.

I use this pdf

 

[aarono2690]

Don't beat yourself up. Truly novel rhythms -one you have not played before - take time to sink in.
Especially if it's given to you , rather than you just coming up with it.

back in my Salsa / Cuban music days I approached the typical Son Montuno thinking it sounded oh so easy
but I was only playing what I imagined it was, instead of the real thing.
took me a few months to get accurate and consistent., and probably over a year to really feel it
-and that was only after learning other rhythm section parts to see how the puzzle fits



The single biggest improvement in my rhythm came from learning to read rhythm notation.
As in serious practice with rhythm exercises and metronome.
It is the difference between trying to remember how it goes, and knowing exactly how it goes.

I use this pdf

Thanks for the PDF. I'll incorporate rhythm sight reading into my practice routine.

 

[JonathanPDX]

Anthony Wellington's Rhythm Yardstick helps a lot with this:



I see each 16th note as having it's own color or flavor, and so does every interval. Just like you can study and learn the "vibe" of a b13 by ear, you can learn the feel of a hit on the A of 2. With practice, you can identify each beat just by hearing it, which makes learning complex rhythms a lot easier, especially if you need to break them down and analyze where everything lines up.

You can also work on building a catalog of songs you know which have a rhythm or melody that falls onto a given subdivision, which gives you a point of reference. It might help to feel a given hit as the "Brick House" accent or whatever song you can relate it to, to help you recall the feel of that note placement.

 

[Jens Telemark]

The process of writing it down on paper always clarifies things I’m having a hard time with.
Putting it into notation software like Dorico is a useful way to check your work.

 

[bholder]

Me, I'm slow, depending on the rhythm, Watching to learn...

 

[Karl Kaminski]

the cliff engle PDF is a great start (along with ANt's vid)

definitely learning to read/being comfortable with the notation adds a visual context to learning. Working thru Louis Bellson's Modern Reading text in 4/4 is great place to maximize your time. The book works each subdivision across the measure so you quickly hear and SEE how it interacts with the beat.

 

[MonetBass]

Back in middle school orchestra, we had "clap offs" (as opposed to playoffs) for chair position. The teacher would put a piece of music in front of us that we weren't familiar with and had us clap the rhythm. Each player would get a different piece of music, obviously. You could use this approach to learn various rhythms. Or you could listen to songs you're not familiar with and clap along with the melodies and solos while tapping your foot for the tempo to get a feel for where the notes fall.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Don't beat yourself up. Truly novel rhythms -one you have not played before - take time to sink in.
Especially if it's given to you , rather than you just coming up with it.

back in my Salsa / Cuban music days I approached the typical Son Montuno thinking it sounded oh so easy
but I was only playing what I imagined it was, instead of the real thing.
took me a few months to get accurate and consistent., and probably over a year to really feel it
-and that was only after learning other rhythm section parts to see how the puzzle fits



The single biggest improvement in my rhythm came from learning to read rhythm notation.
As in serious practice with rhythm exercises and metronome.
It is the difference between trying to remember how it goes, and knowing exactly how it goes.

I use this pdf

This is a challenge for us as we have a Cuban vocalist...speaks little English but sings in English...who's enamored with Selena (RIP) and such. We do "Fotos y Recuerdos" which is essentially a Salsafied "Back on the Chain Gang"...shelved as my bandmates just don't get it. The more familiar stock rhythm won't work.


Riis

 

[bassdude51]

If it is 3 chords, no problem! ha ha ha

 

[ImTheOnlyOne]

Only time will ta ta titi ta titi ta tell how quickly.

I felt like the rhythm enters a new level of difficulty when you get into 16th notes...

Keep the beat, blur the fast passages instead of tripping to a halt on them until their reason for being becomes intelligible in the context of the song and rhythmic style.
Some zippitydooda runs fit a song ingeniously, while some are more like, "Here I am. No, here I am. Now I'm over here, haha! Catch me if you can!".

 

[Karl Kaminski]

well, this is why we must learn rhythms the same way you learn to recognize the notes on the staff.

A great way to learn any new passage of music is to 1st tap out the rhythm, then add the pitches. Reading music is like eating a slice of cake...Practice slowly, 1-2 phrases at a time till you have the whole thing.

Over time certain rhythms become second nature, certain melodic passages become habit, and your concentration moves to the more difficult phrases — the rest is auto pilot.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

back in my Salsa / Cuban music days I approached the typical Son Montuno thinking it sounded oh so easy
but I was only playing what I imagined it was, instead of the real thing.

I'm listening to the same song (it's a Latin-infused track) performed by the same singer but accompanied by two different bands.
I wonder if it's possible to "feel" the differences in "groove" played by two different (professional, jazz musicians) bass players.

Here is the first Drums/Bass pattern played by Hans Glawischnig from The Radio Bigband Frankfurt.

The following is a Drums/Bass pattern of the same song played by Bass – Bernd Windisch from Dephazz's album, "Daily Lama."

Belle de Jour · Dephazz · The Radio Bigband Frankfurt




Belle de Jour · De-Phazz · Pit Baumgartner · Pat Appleton · Otto Engelhardt

 

[turf3]

The Afro-Cuban rhythms are some of the most difficult. There will be long stretches where the bass never plays a note on ONE, yet you HAVE to be dead on.

 

[2saddleslab]

Hell, I'm still trying to find the 1.

 

[Beej]

This is a really interesting discussion to me. I have little formal music training, most of it acquired long after I started playing music by ear. My brother and I would pick out melodies and play them on piano and guitar when we were kids. Once I know how the rhythm goes, I can usually pick it up pretty quickly, especially anything in 4/4. I got into theory when I started playing jazz, just so I could converse with others about what we were doing.

More complex rhythms also came quickly once I could hear the pattern. I played with a keyboardist who introduced me to Mahavishnu Orchestra when I was about 17 and I enjoyed the 'weird' time signatures and rhythm feels. The challenge with playing McLaughlin's work was not the rhythm as much as it was my sausage fingers not playing the notes with the machine-gun fervor the music demanded. The rhythm and Ralphe Armstrong's bassline of Be Happy as it pounds through 13/8 is predictable and has a distinct groove. The rhythm felt natural though the jumps my fingers had to do to capture the bassline did not.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

The Afro-Cuban rhythms are some of the most difficult. There will be long stretches where the bass never plays a note on ONE, yet you HAVE to be dead on.

What do you think about Hadrien Feraud's bass-line in the following (a la Nova Brasileira) track, "Blue Macaw?"

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Once I know how the rhythm goes, I can usually pick it up pretty quickly, especially anything in 4/4. I got into theory when I started playing jazz, just so I could converse with others about what we were doing.

A very rhythmically-interesting track from Carl Winther's, "Deconstructing Mr.X." with Richard Andersson on the DB.
(I'm always looking for new trends in Music.)