How to avoid getting ripped off on the internet

[ZombieBRAINS!!]

he's being paranoid, he sent the money out on Wed, via check(since it needs to clear) and the seller lives on the opposite side of the country.

 

[Zooberwerx]

im buying form someone rigth now re said he reived my money and he said it will take like 3-5 days to clear on his end so he could ship it to meim nervous that he just ran off with the money his reviws on TB looked good and he has a 10 out of 10 100% user rateing

Relax, take a chill pill, whatever....you should be okay. From what I understand, you paid by check not PayPal so its expected the seller will verify funds have cleared before shipping. He also has a 100% approval rating; I believe you're starting at rock-bottom.

Riis

 

[Rebecca]

This isn't about being ripped off, just about safe process: I'm in conversation with a TBer about buying a bass that would need to be shipped from the east coast to Colorado. Is UPS Ground OK in terms of keeping the instrument in good condition if the weather should turn cold? Sorry if this is obvious, but I'm more familiar with acoustic instruments that are probably more vulnerable and so I just wanted some other opinions on the subject. Thanks from a newbie.

 

[chepo06]

Always try to get ALL specs of bass you are gonna buy. I recentlly bought a bass from a TB'er here and found out truss rod was snapped!!! many emails and no responce. seller said there was nothing wrong with bass. It had scratches, a broken volume pot and broken truss rod!

Chep

 

[MrLenny1]

I get the same replies as Planet Boulder on Craigs List. It sucks, no hits except scammers. Even Pay Pal can be risky.
I have tried a different approach, Fed Ex COD on some ads but still people shy away.
It should be safe for seller and buyer. The item is insured and no money no delivery.
Anyone use this method?

 

[ialma]

Everything can be risky depending on the seller and the buyer.
Both can scam the other side, seller sending the box of rocks, the buyer filing a paypal claim and getting his money back.
In this catch 22 situation, I always talk a lot with the seller and send money through bank transfer to have a proof of money sent since bank account cannot be opened anonymously.
I exchange a lot of mail, write down exactly what must be sent to me and its conditions, and once package comes, I start taking photos BEFORE opening the box, to show exactly what I received.

 

[EduardoK]

I have bought a lot of basses at eBay waaaay back. Luckily, no problems ever.
I am now considering starting to sell at the eBay but I am frankly VERY afraid of buyer scams.
Is it true that using Paypal as a payment method is now a must on all listings, or do I have this wrong??? I'd much rather use wire transfer...
Can I list something WITHOUT a Paypal option?
My understanding is that an eCheck is the safest way to go when using Paypal (am I right here???), but can the seller decide on this or is using an eCheck subject only to the buyer's choice?

 

[chasfur]

i have a question... why are so many people turned off by shipping overseas?? i mean once you recieve your money wheres the risk??

 

[jetagegreg]

i have a question... why are so many people turned off by shipping overseas?? i mean once you recieve your money wheres the risk??

Because if the seller doesn't receive the package or claims that they didn't, PayPal may take the money back from the buyer. That plus some fun that can be had going through Customs....

-GB

 

[EduardoK]

Because if the seller doesn't receive the package or claims that they didn't, PayPal may take the money back from the buyer. That plus some fun that can be had going through Customs....

-GB

Is there any form of Paypal payment (eCheck maybe) or any measures to take (as a seller) where Paypal can't take money back??

 

[kesslari]

Is there any form of Paypal payment (eCheck maybe) or any measures to take (as a seller) where Paypal can't take money back??

The problem with that is that buyers need protection from unscrupulous sellers as much as sellers do from unscrupulous buyers. If someone online was demanding payment in a manner that I could not recover if the item never shipped or some other ripoff, I would not work with them.

What we all want is a system where buyers are protected when we're buying, and sellers are protected when we're selling...

 

[ialma]

Most common scam scenarios :
1)
I'm the buyer and I live overseas :
I agree on a bass price and paypal the money : bass is sent from USA to Italy (where I live).
If I'm a dumb buyer, I probably haven't discussed with seller about shipping and insurance price. (will talk later about insurance)
It's very interesting for us europeans to buy in USA due to the euro-dollar exchange rate, but import taxes (22% of the value) kill every profit in this kind of operations.
So, if seller sends with full price declared (es: a 2500$ Tobias) I end up with the bass stopped by customs who request me 500$ fee I had not considered.
All I have to do is to fill a Paypal claim, writing I've never received the object, and paypal will withdraw funds from the seller's account.
After few months UPS will send back the unclaimed bass and seller will have lost two shipping expenses.

2)
I receive the bass and I file a claim declaring the bass is not what I have agreed to or it has serious issues.

3)
Seller sends a piece of crap, much worst than what I had agreed to and withdraws the money from his account.

--------------

My two cents :
ALWAYS clear issues with seller before shipping.
What I do (I had three basses shipped from USA and one from England) is to ask :
- Will the seller send the bass with a lower insurance ?
- is he willing to pack the bass in the sturdiest way possible to reduce shipping risks ?
- am I the buyer willing to have a bass shipped with a lower insurance ?

No problems until now, but I have never bought really expensive basses, and I assume I would NEVER risk to have a 6000$ Fodera or a pre Gibson Tobias sent to me with 200$ insurance.

Ah, I heavily rely on TB feedback, but I'm pretty anxious when buying on CL

Is there any form of Paypal payment (eCheck maybe) or any measures to take (as a seller) where Paypal can't take money back??

Of course there is a way.
Plain bank transfer.
Give the buyer the SWIFT code of your bank account and ask for an international money transfer.
The rates ? From Italy is 12€ + 0,15% on the transferred sum (minimum 4&#8364 which, considering absurd paypal fees (3%) is very cheap.

Of course a bank transfer is absolutely trackable, but having legal issues for an instrument never shipped from Minnesota when you live in South Italy is not the ideal scenario, that's why TB feedback is a lovely thing.

 

[michael_atw]

3% on a $1000 bass is only $30. If it's that big a deal, just increase your asking price by 3%.

My 2 cents,
-GB

Add the ~10% ebay charges and it starts to add up.

 

[michael_atw]

What we all want is a system where buyers are protected when we're buying, and sellers are protected when we're selling...

That system is the old-fashioned way of not buying crap from people living thousands of miles away...you know, the one where you are standing in front of the seller when you hand them the money. It makes me wish I lived before the internet opened up and the brick and mortar store still inhabited my empty downtown buildings.

 

[EduardoK]

Of course there is a way.
Plain bank transfer.

Sure. Question is: is it still possible to list a bass on ebay and NOT accepting paypal payment?

 

[ialma]

Yes, but not accepting paypal is kinda like lighting a big neon sign above your head with "RISKY" written in capital letters.

Sure. Question is: is it still possible to list a bass on ebay and NOT accepting paypal payment?

Ah, I never repent living in the Internet era.
So many interesting persons and instruments around, and I would have never bought my basses without trusting TBers, thank you all.

 

[garythenuke]

Great thread.
There is always risk any time you do private party sells. This is the risk you accept of trying to save money and sales tax and getting exactly what you want instead of doing business with a real store.
All you can hope for is that the person you are dealing with is a stand up guy an not trying to unload junk. I guess I am more disposed to side with the buyer than the seller because the seller has way more opportunity to screw the buyer than the other way around...

$.02

 

[bobunit]

So, I bought a bass here in the classifieds and was immediately approached by a TBer offering to buy it if I ever wanted to sell it. About 2 weeks later, I decided to sell and before starting a thread, I contacted him. He responded stating he'd take it. He said he was in Europe for the week and said he would send money ASAP. I told him that I was buying another bass and needed the money before the auction ended. So I won the auction and never received payment, the guy said that Paypal wouldn't let him send money and his online banking had been frozen, due to out of country IP address "Sorry, it's not the credit card provider.* It's PayPal.* They won't let me take money from a credit card, since I'm out of he country.* They will only let me send cash I have transferred to my PayPal account. When I tried to link my checking account to my PayPal account, my bank cut off my online access.* I called them and had it restored, but the linking, verification and transferring will take a couple of days at least.* If you'll take a check, I can send one today but it will take a week to get there.* But it looks like there's nothing I can do in the short term.* I feel your pain, I really want to buy your bass.** If he can wait a week, I'll throw in an extra $100.* That's all I can do from here."
He said if I could get the Ebay seller to hold off a week, he'd pay an extra $100. Here is what he said in the email "I am still in.* I got locked out of*my online banking again, so there is nothing else I can do until I get home.* If it doesnt*work out, I will pay you the $100."
. I worked it out with the seller to send him a $100 deposit and told him that I would pay him the balance on sun when my buyer was back in the country. On that sunday, that he was supposed to send payment, I was sent this "Just got off a 45 minute phone call from PayPal.* They have locked my account temporarily for "security reasons".* Also locked out of my online banking because of "unusual activity". No way to send money tonight or in the near future.* I am extremely frustrated. I apologize, but this deal isn't going to work out.* I owe you the $100, I will send that via PayPal (which may take a while) or if you send me your address I will mail you a check."
Well, I haven't heard from him since, and I'm out $100.

What should I do?

Have you contacted Paypal about this?

 

[CelinderMotoMan]

Edit: he paid me

 

[Benjamin188]

Mods, feel free to move this wherever you want, but I thought the classifieds was the most appropriate place to post this.


I get about 2 or 3 requests a month from people asking me to help them track down someone who has ripped them off on a transaction on eBay, HC, Bassgear, etc. I'm more than happy to help out, but the one thing I have noticed is that a lot of people don't protect themselves as much as they could. Here's a little checklist to go through that I posted over on the Dudepit that can help you guys avoid a lot of grief when doing a deal with someone you don't know.

In the future, I hope everyone here checks out people before they do business with them. A lot of you guys here buy and sell a lot of gear, and if you know the person...great. But if not make sure you get a home phone# a work phone # a cell phone# home address etc. check out the info too. Call the person. If you think they gave you a cell# as a home or work # - check it out here:
www.fonefinder.net/

It will tell you if it's a land line or a cell and what city it goes to.

Reverse the phone#s and addresses they gave you to see where they go. Argali is really good for this. You can also reverse the address.

Just go to www.argali.com and download their program.

If you think the address is a mail drop you can check that out as well at Invalid Link Removed

If you want to find out who owns the address they give you to send payment to you can also go to
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Select the state and county of the address. A lot of them have online databases, but you can call the tax assessor as well and find out who owns that property.

These are just a few of the free online resouces you can use to protect yourself and verify the information the seller gives you is accurate.

Ask for references from other people they have done business with. If I'm shelling out $100 for an effect pedal or $3000 for a bass, I want to know if the person is honest or not,

Make sure the info they give you checks out before you give up any of your hard earned cash. An honest seller won't be offended in the least when you ask them for this info.

Thanks for letting someone new know about this. Usefull Thanks