How to balance my bass to be held vertically

[your idol]

somebody better go tell the doghouse boys that they are in for a world of hurtin.

theres a difference between how a DB players arm is held and how a thin bass would be held. there is more space between the neck and the person with a DB forcing the arm at the shoulder to be naturally tighter to the body where a thinner bass keeps the neck close to the body creating more joint bendingand sharper angles.

also a DB is resting on the floor. there will have to be more support strength on the neck from the fretting arm creating more stress.

aside from the ergonomic flaws in the approach to doing this with an electric bass the fretting technique would be very much the same as DB and possibly offer less stress from a fret access standpoint at least

 

[lisk]

well for staters the constantly elevated elbow is going to put years of unnecessary wear and tear on your fretting hands shoulder.. and i just have to ask..why?!?! is there any utilitarian reason or is it just for the look?

If I have my bass up where the left hand is comfortable and ace, my right hand isn't.
If I have my bass way down where my right hand is nice and relaxed, then my left hand bends dangerously (unless I don't want to use my pinky).

So now both my hands are relaxed, don't bend in weird angles and I'm comfortable. My shoulders don't seem to get tired.

Of course the bass isn't totally vertical and there's no way I'd hold my arm parallel to the ground, that'd be tiresome, just a bit to the left.

 

[Gearhead43]

Why not get a ball and socket setup like ZZ Top?

 

[spade2you]

If I have my bass up where the left hand is comfortable and ace, my right hand isn't.
If I have my bass way down where my right hand is nice and relaxed, then my left hand bends dangerously (unless I don't want to use my pinky).

So now both my hands are relaxed, don't bend in weird angles and I'm comfortable. My shoulders don't seem to get tired.

Of course the bass isn't totally vertical and there's no way I'd hold my arm parallel to the ground, that'd be tiresome, just a bit to the left.

Take lessons. Even if you feel comfortable, I would doubt you can move around the fingerboard very well and suggest you adopt an ergonomic style before you get too stuck on the vertical style.

 

[your idol]

the reason i asked is because people do the dumbest things because they look cool sometimes..which is the dumbest reason. the reason i took so much interest is i play with my body low and my neck high, specifically for the same reasons you have stated.

i have huge hands but theyre all palm, short fingers. so in order for comfy fret access and the ability to use my hand to its fullest i have to keep my neck at a pretty high angle.unfortunately i have long arms and when i keep my bass too high when i get into T-Rex arm mode its uncomfortable to the point of pain at times so i keep my body where the bottom just touches my belt line and it angles the neck and headstock directly at my left shoulder and this is comfortable. plus this allows me to keep my arms closer to my body and allows enough extension to avoid unnecessary bending.

i dont have alot of neckdive on my basses so it never causes any problem keeping it in this position. i would change the loaction of the strap button on the upper horn but a relocation on the butt of the bass should balance it out alot nicer.

id take a look at some gibson thunderbird neckdive threads. those guys are amazing at relocating strap buttons to balance the bass

 

[lisk]

the reason i asked is because people do the dumbest things because they look cool sometimes..which is the dumbest reason. the reason i took so much interest is i play with my body low and my neck high, specifically for the same reasons you have stated.

i have huge hands but theyre all palm, short fingers. so in order for comfy fret access and the ability to use my hand to its fullest i have to keep my neck at a pretty high angle.unfortunately i have long arms and when i keep my bass too high when i get into T-Rex arm mode its uncomfortable to the point of pain at times so i keep my body where the bottom just touches my belt line and it angles the neck and headstock directly at my left shoulder and this is comfortable. plus this allows me to keep my arms closer to my body and allows enough extension to avoid unnecessary bending.

i dont have alot of neckdive on my basses so it never causes any problem keeping it in this position. i would change the loaction of the strap button on the upper horn but a relocation on the butt of the bass should balance it out alot nicer.

id take a look at some gibson thunderbird neckdive threads. those guys are amazing at relocating strap buttons to balance the bass

I feel you man

I think, comparing to your description, I keep my bass at a similar angle, but a bit lower. Though I haven't found the perfect height just yet.

Yeah I did check those threads before I posted, pretty much gave me the ideas.

 

[spade2you]

I feel you man

I think, comparing to your description, I keep my bass at a similar angle, but a bit lower. Though I haven't found the perfect height just yet.

Yeah I did check those threads before I posted, pretty much gave me the ideas.

My general rule of thumb is to hang the bass at a height where my right hand would grab my gut naturally. I then hold my left hand out as if I'm playing air guitar, which becomes my angle.

 

[unclejane]

well for staters the constantly elevated elbow is going to put years of unnecessary wear and tear on your fretting hands shoulder.. and i just have to ask..why?!?! is there any utilitarian reason or is it just for the look?

Well, a more vertical positioning allows the neck to be closer in enabling an easier reach in the lower registers without crunching up the wrist of the fretting hand. A much better tradeoff in case your particular anatomy doesn't permit much bend in the fretting wrist (like mine).

Bunny Brunel is probably the most prominent vertical bass position player out there and he seems to get along with it pretty well.

An elevated elbow doesn't seem to be a bother to DB players either.

I also don't see how this is necessarily bad technique either.....

LS

 

[grifff]

Well, a more vertical positioning allows the neck to be closer in enabling an easier reach in the lower registers without crunching up the wrist of the fretting hand. A much better tradeoff in case your particular anatomy doesn't permit much bend in the fretting wrist (like mine).

Bunny Brunel is probably the most prominent vertical bass position player out there and he seems to get along with it pretty well.

An elevated elbow doesn't seem to be a bother to DB players either.

I also don't see how this is necessarily bad technique either.....

LS

+1

I'd love to hear more though because having the neck more vertical and close to my body seems to be more comfortable for me.

 

[grifff]

Where did you get the pricing for the tuners?

Regular gotoh tuners run about half the price of the hipshot ultralite replacements.

Because the Gotoh tuners aren't ultralite.

 

[xaxxat]

Leon Wilkeson had a device attached to his Fenderbird that helped him hold it vertically. He used it after sustaining injuries in a plane crash. I've seen some pictures of it here. You might do a search on him and see it. I remember that it was a bit crude but it might give you some Ideas.

Here you go:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=7515769&highlight=leon+wilkeson#post7515769

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6790873&highlight=leon+wilkeson#post6790873

 

[unclejane]

+1

I'd love to hear more though because having the neck more vertical and close to my body seems to be more comfortable for me.

Then that's the technique you should probably use. There's no a-priori reason a vertical-neck technique is bad (Fergie Fulton and I have gone round and round about technique and long-term injury in a couple other threads, he has won every time and for good reasons the main one being there is no one "proper" way to play the bass).

Whatever positioning that a) doesn't hinder your playing and b) doesn't cause injury is probably the right one for you.

BB isn't the only player I've seen adopt this technique either, it's pretty common for many players' anatomies, including mine. I can get away with a slightly lower neck (about a 45 deg. position) but still have to have a properly balanced bass worn pretty high up on my chest.

LS

 

[Ed Goode]

+1

I'd love to hear more though because having the neck more vertical and close to my body seems to be more comfortable for me.

The most comfortable playing position I've ever been in with an electric bass. Try it out sometime .....

Link Removed

My newest fretless 6 string, below

 

[unclejane]

Take lessons. Even if you feel comfortable, I would doubt you can move around the fingerboard very well and suggest you adopt an ergonomic style before you get too stuck on the vertical style.

Can't agree. The position he's adopted is comfortable for him and his wrists - I see no reason to think that therefore that's not a good position for him and his dexterity should be reduced.

A good instructor would probably arrive at the same conclusion if (s)he is good at paying attention. Comfort is a much better pedagogical tool for discovering the correct position for an individual player than rigid adherence to some concept of "proper" technique.

For reasons that should be obvious, you fit the instrument to the player, not the other way around.

LS

 

[Getaway Driver]

Robert DeLeo plays vertically, check the Schecter model T for how his strap buttons are positioned, otherwise I'd take the chapman stick-style suggestion.

 

[spade2you]

Can't agree. The position he's adopted is comfortable for him and his wrists - I see no reason to think that therefore that's not a good position for him and his dexterity should be reduced.

A good instructor would probably arrive at the same conclusion if (s)he is good at paying attention. Comfort is a much better pedagogical tool for discovering the correct position for an individual player than rigid adherence to some concept of "proper" technique.

For reasons that should be obvious, you fit the instrument to the player, not the other way around.

LS

This position will NOT work with anyone under 5'8"

 

[unclejane]

This position will NOT work with anyone under 5'8"

On what basis do you claim that?

You've seen Bunny Brunel, right? He's a kind of a little guy, I'd say even smaller than me.

I'm 5'7" and use a bunny 6 in as vertical a position as I can get the neck. I've even thought about a straploc further up on the body like BB to get it even more vertical.

LS

 

[spade2you]

On what basis do you claim that?

Bunny uses it...but so does Fieldy.

 

[Diogenes]

... I would doubt you can move around the fingerboard very well and suggest you adopt an ergonomic style before you get too stuck on the vertical style.

I can understand the OP's request. As the years roll by I hold my bass more and more vertical because it's more comfortable. As for ergonomics, "one size" does not fit all so what works for you and is comfortable to you may be awkward and a strain to someone else. There's less strain on my wrists, which are straighter when playing a more vertical bass, and it's easier to move around because my left arm (I fret with my left hand) doesn't have to extend outward away from my body. Just picture playing a Chapman stick or other instrument in which the tap method is used. The reason the instrument is held in an upright manner is for comfort and range of motion... both are reasons I play my bass the way I do.

I put strap buttons at the neck/body joint and move the one near the butt of the body upwards a few inches. My bass hangs naturally and I don't have to support it in any way.

That's just the way it is.

 

[unclejane]

Bunny uses it...but so does Fieldy.

Er, I have no idea what this means......

But again I don't see any a-priori reason that a vertical positioning would be bad technique or would limit motion, etc. Particularly given that the DB is necessarily played in a vertical position not to mention the electric in many cases.

Fergie F and I had a long thread elsewhere where we discussed the topic of bent-wrist techniques, sort of a corollary to this because that's sort of what a vertical neck positioning treats. In the end, the conclusion was that there wasn't a very good body of evidence either way to support or reject it as generally good or bad. So we can't yet step out and say bent-wrist techniques are bad period. Its a good bet that the issue of using a more vertical-neck approach is going to pan out similarly.

Unfortunately, that only leaves us with trial-and-error for finding a technique that _is_ good for a particular player: if a technique works for you, great, but if it doesn't.... ouch! Hopefully you can catch a problem early enough before it creates a chronic problem (as has turned out to be the case for me). That sucks, so hopefully we can correct that with research going forward.

But there are rules of thumb we can follow. Pretty much, if it doesn't hinder your abilities and is comfortable, it's likely (but not always necessarily) to be the right technique for you. In particular, avoid things that cause pain or excessive strain/discomfort. Those are the best indicators that you're going in the wrong direction.

LS