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Double Bass How to deal with back pain

If you are a stander, you might want to check the condition of your shoes. If they are worn, it can throw your back out of alignment.

Have a friend check your posture when standing, you might be doing something odd that you don't notice. I had a student who said he could only play for about 20 minutes before he was in agony. I looked at him from behind and the neck/back/ bottom line was like a zig-zag. This put a lot of strain on the nerves and caused the problems.

Also, I have the front legs of my stool 1 inch shorter than my back ones. This angles the seat a bit. I have an indicator on the middle of the rung of the short side and I point this at the tip of the endpin when playing.

This allows my back to be a bit straighter when sitting and throw a bit more body weight into my arm so the weight does the work and not my muscles.

+1 about swimming and chiropractors
 
I would add a stretch or two to the above advice.

As string players and using each arm differently in front of us for long periods of time we tend to tighten muscles across the chest that pull shoulders forward (we become hollow-chested and round shouldered) and lock up the area between our shoulder blades to support the work we do with our arms. This may be the source of your pain.

Just as we should exercise to maintain strength we should also do stretches, both before warm-up and after cooling down, for mobility and flexibility. There are various well known stretches for hands, wrists, forearms, biceps and triceps. As well there are stretches for deltoids (shoulder caps) and pectorals (across the chest). And to stretch the nerves down each arm. Any physiotherapist can run you through these.

The stretch that might help your back pain I have heard called "Cats and Dogs". Kneel on the floor with your thighs vertical, back horizontal and weight supported on vertical arms (either on your hands or knuckles). Rock forward over your hands and drop your back and butt to make your spine concave. Arch your head back and up as you relax chest muscles and allow your shoulder blades to come together.
Then rock back towards your heels as you arch your back to make the spine convex, pull on your arms to tighten your chest muscles and stretch the shoulder blades apart, and drop your head down between your shoulders to add to the stretch of your neck and upper spine.

This is not a fast routine and maybe only needs a few repetitions, holding each end of the stretch for a few seconds. You are mimicking the way cats and dogs stretch.

Cheers....

DP
 
I have chronic sciatica and have found that, yoga, pilates, hiking, massage, chiropractors and rest all help. But every situation is unique and you have to try each variable and see the results. It may take some time to figure out.
 
Since developing stenosis (L5) in addition to arthritis, I work with a trainer twice a week and a massage therapist. But the big change for me was changing to sitting (low stool) with the best in an almost cello position, with a very low (1.5") end pin. I also changed basses from a Maggini-model Gagnon bass to one with much smaller, sloping shoulders.

But for me, the change to sitting was the key.

Louis
 
if that's the case see a back specialist (my recommendation is a neurologist, because this a someone who neither operates nor manipulates and will gain nothing financial by any of the remedies/therapies he or she will recommend, unlike a surgeon or chiropractor).

By that logic I guess my dentist is only trying to gain financially by recommending a filling for a cavity , unlike the neurologist who gives free advice during his free office visits.
 
Hi,
I've had 3 back operations, cut 2 x in the lower back and once in the front and have titanium cages at L5 S1. I have chronic back pain all the time... I still play out regularly and use fairly heavy basses ...I have to watch my posture etc....I know what works for me through trial and error.

But! Before you do anything (exercise wise) I would see either a Neurologist or a good orthopedic doc who specializes in backs and get a MRI to find out whats going on. You really need to find out whats going on before you get real aggressive with exercises or stretching... Some types can aggravate your condition. What works for me might not help you. There's a bunch of non-invasive tests they can do to figure things out.

Good luck feel free to PM me if you have any questions!
 
Am going through neck / upper back issues now. I tend to be incredibly healthy and have 6 Ironman's under my belt, the last one 6 months ago. Between bad posture, work stress, playing more bass than normal and not working out for a while, I ended up in incredible pain. All of my neck muscles tightened up like crazy. I ended up on drugs and getting massage therapy. I could not even lie down without incredible pain.

A friend is now treating me with Chiro. She did x-rays, and I had some disc degeneration C4-C7, and my neck was starting to straighten. I am now stretching like crazy and getting adjustments. I am getting back to normal. I will be much more vigilant about stretching/yoga, core muscle training and improving my posture. Inactivity is the enemy.

But yeah, get some images and start a routine of stretching and strengthening.
 
Don't do this. It is damaging to the cervical vertebrae.

Please see my reply # 12 that suggests a relaxing exercise for the back.

Will lying on your back on the floor with nothing under your head for 15 minutes while your body relaxes and settles toward the floor under its own weight really damage the cervical vertebrae?

I know my Alexander person always uses a small stack of paperbacks under my head while he works on my lower back and hips (when on my back on his bench).

Many of the stretches recommended by physios for the neck are much more drastic, including pulling your head forward and down, or diagonally and sideways, with your hand on top of your head.

DP
 
Please see my reply # 12 that suggests a relaxing exercise for the back.

Will lying on your back on the floor with nothing under your head for 15 minutes while your body relaxes and settles toward the floor under its own weight really damage the cervical vertebrae?
Yes. The head is naturally forward of the spine. This is how we were designed to exist. Lying with the head unsupported stresses the musculature of the head, neck, and upper back and compresses the cervical vertebrae. It causes restricted breathing, reduces the volume of the lungs and impedes the supply of oxygen and removal of toxins through exhalation. Your AT teacher will confirm this.

I know my Alexander person always uses a small stack of paperbacks under my head while he works on my lower back and hips (when on my back on his bench).DP
No pun intended, I rest my case.
 
There have been many mentions of back pain at TB/DB. I've kept generally quiet about the Alexander Technique, first, because I'll sound like a broken record, and second, because AT remains a mystery to most people. Explaining it is difficult at best, and I've even had someone speaking from a position of total ignorance say "It sounds like snake oil".

In August, 2008, the British Medical Journal published a study comparing the results of conventional general practitioner care, massage, and lessons in the Alexander Technique. The study found that at the end of one year, GP patients averaged 21 days per month with back pain, those with massage intervention had 14 pain days, AT students with 6 lessons had 11, and AT students with 24 lessons had 3 pain days.
The British Medical Journal report and a video are at:
Invalid Link Removed
A BBC News report is here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7568948.stm
 
I have many friends who have benefited tremendously from the technique. I for one was not one of them. I had back pain for some time and tried AT for nearly a year and either my teacher was bad or I didn't understand a word. I found relief through Rolfing and Feldenkrais. I am not knocking AT i just bring Rolfing and Feldenkrais to offer an alternative. I have a high degree of respect for all AT practitioners. I don't believe it to be snake oil at all. I have been a Structural Integration practitioner for some time (the umbrella which Rolfing falls under) and have found it to help people tremendously. Movement awareness, whether it be Feldenkrais, AT, Yoga, Pilates, Aston PAtterning or what have you is the key. YMMV.
 
If I can wear my non-bass hat for a moment:

One of the things I do in LA is run a teacher-trainging institute for secondary English and drama teachers at the Huntington Library. We focus on teaching Shakespeare. In addition to the voice, scene study and text work the participating teachers do on my course, they also start an introductory Alexander program (taught by a woman I believe Don knows) -- mostly dealing with awareness of tension in the head, neck and shoudlers - and how that tension affects everything from their voices to their end of the teaching day headaches, to what they allow them to experience when working on Shakespeare's prose and poetry.

I'd say listen to Don -- and ask him (if he doesn't mind) for a recommendation for a teacher in your area. The AT work is slow, incremental, non-aggressive (unlike Rolfing for example) and will have a major impact on your life.

Louis
 
I'm an Alexander teacher. It is contrary to the AT culture to claim to be "expert".
While there have been several citations of valid means to make the pain go away, none of them have anything to do with the stopping the cause of the pain. They are responses to pain, not preventatives.
I can't help the OP without knowing where he/she lives.

Try the Alexander Technique. Don here hooked me up with a teacher in my town and the benefits were immediately obvious in the first session. I have fusion in my upper spine and daily chronic pain for twenty-five years. AT didn't make it completely go away, too much trauma, but it is manageable now and I take far fewer painkillers. Like yoga though it is work you have to do every day...you're not a passive participant.
 
Let me throw my hat of personal experience in here. I had back surgery in 1993 for a ruptured disc (almost certainly NOT what you have). I have Crohn's Disease, which causes inflammation to show up around my body from time to time. A few years ago, I was having a lot of back and shoulder pain associated with playing and I got all of this same advice. There are a lot of people treating back pain in their own way. You're either going to have to pick someone to listen to, try everything for yourself or start really looking for some causes.

I'll give you my OPINIONS ONLY of the result of my own exploration. I don't claim to actually know anything and your pain and cause may have nothing to do with my pain and cause. (how's that for a disclaimer?).

"Core Strengthening" is the rage right now. Every single thing that you look at anywhere, focus's on core strengthening. "If you're back hurts, it's because your core is weak". It may be true or it may not be true, but it smells like a fad right now to me. There's one every decade (remember how bad for us carbs were in the 1990s?) I suspect that there is some truth to it, but it's not quite what people have bought into right now. Exercise is good, getting strong is good, I don't think any harm will come from doing pilates or P90x or whatever, but I personally fail to accept the "core" is the answer to every medical question as is currently suggested.

Swimming. I think this is the perfect exercise if you are a good swimmer or can become one and have access to a not-overly-crowded pool. I love swimming and know that I would be better off if I could do it every day, but it's not practical for me, here in Seattle unfortunately. I get some laps in now and again when I can. You know if it is an option for you or not.

Chiropractic. - Not for me. Some people swear by it. I suspect that there are some good chiropractors, but it's a big, fast, not-especially regulated industry with a great lobby group that has kept them from the type of professional scrutiny that most MDs go through. Flame me for that if you will, I can back those claims up, but would rather not. As I said, I know people who have good Chiropractors and swear by the results, it might work out for you. I would have no idea how to pick the good, honest chiropractor out of the field. If it interests you, try to find a personal referral and ask that person how long they've been going to them and if they've gotten better of it's just a dependency that they have now. You mind find a good story that you can apply to yourself.

Acupuncture - no one's brought this up, but someone will. People love it or dis-believe. I haven't tried it, most people I know say that it made them better for a little while, but eventually they had to deal with their problems. It is a system based some concepts of Eastern Medicine that I can't really personally buy into; chi, meridian lines, etc. But, I haven't tried it and I'm not knocking it. It's not likely to do any harm.

Doctors - My experience. Your PCP/Family Doc can give you pills, muscle relaxers or narcotics. Maybe that will help, depending on what is wrong. They will suggest exercises, maybe the McKinzie book (Heal Your Own Back). XRays usually aren't helpful because most of the time it's a soft tissue problem that won't show up on a classic XRay. MRIs or CT scans are more telling, but do you need them? Depends on what's happening. Specialists can inject cortizone, which help with pain if it's caused by a specific type of inflammation. They can do surgery if it's appropriate for you. General pain after playing, isn't the type of pain that lead to my surgery, though. You'd need to talk with a medical professional about your specific symptoms. Neurologists, Neuro Surgeons, Orthopedic Surgeons, Sports Medicine or Rehab docs are all possibilities. Not all surgeons are quick to surgery, some are. No matter who you go to, you're dealing with a human being and some are going to be better than others at figuring out how to help you.

Jumping around with your bass in the orchestra pit like Flea from The Red Hot Chili Peppers. Yeah, that's guy's right, don't do that.

Bass technique. For me, I was concerned that this might be a cause. Certainly what we do is very repetitive and I felt like the repetition was causing or aggravating my problems (which I still have to a MUCH lesser degree). Looking at your profile, you'll have access to the right people to assess if there is a technical issue or adjustment to be made. I've made some small adjustments and I'll make more gradually. We all do, right?

Alexander Technique - Don referred me to the best person in my area and I did it for about 6 months. I loved it. I felt great during and after and developed an awareness of myself, structurally and in movement that has helped me in just about every way that I can think of. It helped my playing. Physically, I felt great. It did not cure me or even really get to the cause of my problem. Alexanderists may say that it would have if I had stuck with it for a few years and sometimes they may be right, but I think in my case there was a cause of my worst pain that needed something else. (irrelavant to you) I think Alexander could be the solution for you, depending on cause, but not regardless of cause (I hope that's fair, Don). My teacher was clear that it wasn't physical therapy, wasn't treatment and they don't use words like "cure". It is hard to talk about, which makes it difficult to approach without a huge leap of faith. I neither wish to talk you into or out of it. I really liked it, if I had unlimited amounts of time and money, I'd do it every day. Get a referral from Don and check it out if you're interested, but if you've got a medical problem, I would see a doctor too. Make sure to see someone good. There are some lessor providers here. It's so simple, its very complicated.

Massage - Certainly not a cure, if you find a good masseuse, it's quite pleasant. Again, with unlimited resources, I'd start and end every day with a 1 hour massage. But, it wouldn't have "fixed me" and probably won't with you either, unless you're just a little tense.

Physical Therapy - Helps some people. I've been to good and less good physical therapists. I have a good one now who is my go-to when I need help. She's actually all about the core too, which bugs me a bit, but she's great. Also not a cure.

I'm sorry to say, you're going to have to find what works for you. If your pain is bad enough or interfering enough, you'll have to do it and probably the solution won't be the first thing you try. But, it's worth it, once you feel better and can play the instrument you love without associating the experience with pain.

Again, take it for what's it's worth. My opinions based on my own research and experience. I'm sure I offended someone, it's not my intention. I'm just trying to say that there isn't one answer or one cause. No one credible on a forum can tell you what is wrong with you or how to fix it. Gather up all of our opinions and then proceed locally.