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How to Double slap faster (not double thumb)
- Thread starter RoccoBass04
- Start date
It's most likely because you are doing something new and confusing. When you develop proficiency and have the lick played in, you will be using your muscles efficiently.
Muscles work in pairs, and ideally you only engage the muscle necessary to do the work. Also you only use enough force to get the job done.
When you don't understand how to do a motion, you tend to use too much force and the also engage both muscles. This can cause what I call a clench, which can be painful.
Sounds like you are getting a clench in a set of muscles that should not be significantly involved in the lick. It's not unusual for various parts of your body to tense up when you are stressed.
Hopefully you can master the lick and figure out the mechanics to play efficiently. When you do, I suspect the pain in your shoulder will go away.
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That’s hard to judge without seeing you do it. Is it possible to make or short video of you playing that lick?
Could be that you lift up your shoulder a bit or something. Try to play it as relaxed as possible even though it’s a hard lick.
I have send you a PM by the way.
+1. This is exactly what I was referring to as tension.
Thanks for help but I don't think remembering the lick is the problem as I've playing it for many months and made sure to practice slow for a while, so I think it is technique.
Possible, but IMHO unlikely.
If you had mastered the lick you would not have started the thread. Since you are asking for help, it suggests you are still struggling and dealing with unnecessary tension.
I am by no means a slap monster, but I can play the lick at tempo for a few bars, so it is probably not a problem technique-wise. What I can't do is sustain the lick reliably for an extended time. I sort of loose my place because I have not internalized the pattern, and part of it is the reverse of what I would naturally do.
The first half of the lick is a pattern I use, although I normally use 4th finger for the hit rather than 2nd as indicated by the page.
The second half of the lick uses a combination that I don't normally use. The pluck to the hit seems backwards to me. My natural inclination would probably be to put a thump in place of the hit, so you wind up with |THTPTH,THTPTH| rather than |THTPHT,THTPHT|.
So to play this at tempo for an extended time, I would need to play it in well enough that it just happens automatically. This is because my level of training reading this sort of notation is not efficient. I have to slow down so I can translate THTPHT rather than seeing the symbols and simply playing the required lick.
I have a similar problem with maintaining tempo for multiple bars sometimes for a short amount of time and can play the full tempo.
Perhaps the shoulder pain is from trying too hard...literally. Think about the muscles and movements that are actually involved in what you are doing. The bass hangs from the strap. Relaxing will allow you to move more fluidly. Anything that is tensed in you slapping side that is not involved in what your wrist and thumb are doing is waste and counter-productive. Watch Les Claypool play the lick. He's not super tense about it. A relaxed thumb makes all of the difference in taking advantage of the available bounce. A stiff thumb won't bounce, forcing you to pull away from the strings with your wrist or other muscles. Don't think of your thumb as a hammer, but more like a rubber ball on a thin stick.
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I have a similar problem with maintaining tempo for multiple bars sometimes for a short amount of time and can play the full tempo.
I think you really should make a video. Otherwise no one is able to help you. Everyone is just guessing.
@RoccoBass04
Hope this helps:
Okay, I messed with the lick a couple of times today.
I am a big fan of using multiple approaches to learn the same material in different ways...multi-faceted learning. The first time I practiced on my desk (no bass). I set up a sticky note under my right index finger and a sticky note pad under my left middle finger. For the right thumb I simply struck the desktop. The idea is to get different sounds from the different strokes, just like on the bass. IMHO hearing the different tones is helpful and seems to help cement the pattern.
I focused primarily on the pattern THTPHT, THTPHT and which fingers are used. Left index finger lightly pressing the desktop to simulate the mute. Then I simulated the motion of the lick between right thumb (T), left middle finger (H), and right index finger (P). You could also use right middle finger (P) if you like. I tried it both ways as I use both fingers about equally for plucking.
At first, put some effort into thinking about the motion of your individual fingers and try to integrate the different motions into a single stream of consciousness, rather than thinking of it as totally separate events. This basically means you think of two things happening at once rather than trying to keep it all separate. I see sort of a linkage between the right thumb and the left middle finger. One goes down and the other goes up...like the ends of a see saw. So it can be viewed as one event rather than two.
Also observe the pattern as it moves around your finger tips. It reminds me of waves bounce around in a corner. This is different pattern that you can see/visualize and feel. Feel the rhythm of the waves and relax into it. You may perceive this totally different than I do...and that is just fine. However you perceive it, embrace the pattern and make it your own.
As the pattern starts to fall in place you should eventually be able to completely stop thinking about it and just let it continue.
Later I picked up the bass and the lick felt a bit awkward again, partly because the bass was different than the desktop and partly because it had been a few hours since my last practice session.
I started slow and worked it up. Within minutes, the lick started coming together and feeling more natural. It wasn't long until I could turn on my Boss Dr Beat and play along for an extended time with 1/4 note and triplet 8th note pulses. I don't remember if I had the beat set to 124 or 128bpm, but it felt pretty relaxed and I think I can play it a bit faster without the lick falling apart.
One minor problem is the harmonic wants to ring from the pluck. This is not necessarily a bad thing as this could be intended (or not), but controlling it requires additional muting...which is something else to think about.
I tried using my left hand pinkie and also my right palm. IMHO, the palm requires more attention and finesse. Also using the palm changes the angle of the right hand strokes, which feels a bit less natural to me. Using the pinkie on the G string was a bit confounding at first, but the difficulty did not last long. I am still not certain which would be best in the long term.
I am not getting any clenching in my shoulder. However, I have an idea of what you may be experiencing. Doing this lick involves pushing down with the right palm and forearm. This is done for muting purposes and to stabilize the bass. So over an extended time, the effort could become slightly fatiguing, although I do not find it problematic.
I am not to the point where I feel this lick is entirely internalized. Whenever I begin to practice the pattern, I still have to start slow and think about it. But I am easing into it quicker and quicker. It won't be long until I can just do it randomly whenever I feel like it.
Hint: Starting on the pickup note may help with the double T. I.E. to practice the pattern, hear the triplets in your head and then start like this: T|THTPHT, THTPHT|THTPHT, THTPHT|THTPHT, THTPHT| Also, imagine an accent on the downbeat T. If you really want to get comfortable, try every possible starting point.
Hope this helps:
Okay, I messed with the lick a couple of times today.
I am a big fan of using multiple approaches to learn the same material in different ways...multi-faceted learning. The first time I practiced on my desk (no bass). I set up a sticky note under my right index finger and a sticky note pad under my left middle finger. For the right thumb I simply struck the desktop. The idea is to get different sounds from the different strokes, just like on the bass. IMHO hearing the different tones is helpful and seems to help cement the pattern.
I focused primarily on the pattern THTPHT, THTPHT and which fingers are used. Left index finger lightly pressing the desktop to simulate the mute. Then I simulated the motion of the lick between right thumb (T), left middle finger (H), and right index finger (P). You could also use right middle finger (P) if you like. I tried it both ways as I use both fingers about equally for plucking.
At first, put some effort into thinking about the motion of your individual fingers and try to integrate the different motions into a single stream of consciousness, rather than thinking of it as totally separate events. This basically means you think of two things happening at once rather than trying to keep it all separate. I see sort of a linkage between the right thumb and the left middle finger. One goes down and the other goes up...like the ends of a see saw. So it can be viewed as one event rather than two.
Also observe the pattern as it moves around your finger tips. It reminds me of waves bounce around in a corner. This is different pattern that you can see/visualize and feel. Feel the rhythm of the waves and relax into it. You may perceive this totally different than I do...and that is just fine. However you perceive it, embrace the pattern and make it your own.
As the pattern starts to fall in place you should eventually be able to completely stop thinking about it and just let it continue.
Later I picked up the bass and the lick felt a bit awkward again, partly because the bass was different than the desktop and partly because it had been a few hours since my last practice session.
I started slow and worked it up. Within minutes, the lick started coming together and feeling more natural. It wasn't long until I could turn on my Boss Dr Beat and play along for an extended time with 1/4 note and triplet 8th note pulses. I don't remember if I had the beat set to 124 or 128bpm, but it felt pretty relaxed and I think I can play it a bit faster without the lick falling apart.
One minor problem is the harmonic wants to ring from the pluck. This is not necessarily a bad thing as this could be intended (or not), but controlling it requires additional muting...which is something else to think about.
I tried using my left hand pinkie and also my right palm. IMHO, the palm requires more attention and finesse. Also using the palm changes the angle of the right hand strokes, which feels a bit less natural to me. Using the pinkie on the G string was a bit confounding at first, but the difficulty did not last long. I am still not certain which would be best in the long term.
I am not getting any clenching in my shoulder. However, I have an idea of what you may be experiencing. Doing this lick involves pushing down with the right palm and forearm. This is done for muting purposes and to stabilize the bass. So over an extended time, the effort could become slightly fatiguing, although I do not find it problematic.
I am not to the point where I feel this lick is entirely internalized. Whenever I begin to practice the pattern, I still have to start slow and think about it. But I am easing into it quicker and quicker. It won't be long until I can just do it randomly whenever I feel like it.
Hint: Starting on the pickup note may help with the double T. I.E. to practice the pattern, hear the triplets in your head and then start like this: T|THTPHT, THTPHT|THTPHT, THTPHT|THTPHT, THTPHT| Also, imagine an accent on the downbeat T. If you really want to get comfortable, try every possible starting point.
