How to get a Funky Feel?

[Eminentbass]

The purpose behind theory is not about rules or restrictions it's actually about expanding vocabulary and reducing restrictions. In the end it's not about knowing names but more importantly about knowing what notes sound good in any given context. A person playing music with a theoretical background still has the goal to play creatively and getting to the point where the theory becomes second nature and a sub-conscious action in helping to play whatever they hear in their head.

Technique is only half the picture. Stylistic aspects that relate to feel can be picked up through listening and imitation. Funk is not a theoretically complex style and the best thing to do, if you have a grasp of how to slap for instance, is to learn songs by ear. That way you're at least doing something that might take work but in process does improve your ear and expand your vocabulary. Even people who know theory backwards need to understand any style they wish to play and listening to it is the only way to achieve that.

Getting any feel right is about playing with authority and confidence, so being comfortable with your knowledge of the instrument is essential. I hope I'm not being condescending but while I come from a theory perspective, the goal is just to be comfortable and fluent so that you have less physical limitations in executing a feel that you may already have.

Ok, so I just re-read your OP after typing all that. It boils down to a combination of experience and knowing how the music is put together. Most slap to me, with the exception of Victor Wooten and Alain Caron, sounds the same because most funk guys are influenced by the same players and it's one big melting pot which is built upon a vocabulary of only a few scales. Even if you're trying to be original, don't be afraid to draw from your influences. I apologise for the long winded diatribe but I hope there's something useful in there

 

[Beginner Bass]

Whenever someone asks me to explain theory, I say that it is "The science of why notes sound the way they do." How could you afford not to even skim that?

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

...'sfunny, I always thought Flea woulda sounded even funkier with someone other than Chad Smith (who had the Rock/Punk part done...not so much on the Funk side, IMO).
Will Calhoun, for one, woulda lit a fire in that band.

Coming from anybody else I would argue vehemently about this !!

But I wonder ff RHCPs actually want to be funky - it would probably alienate their rock/grunge audience if they were too funky...

So there are some pretty funky tunes on Blood Sugar Sex Magik - - but they are not funky like Parliament, Headhunters or EWF etc. It's not what they want to be...?

And I'm sure their managers/marketing have told them that this doesn't sell as well as Stadium Rawk!!

But can you imagine Headhunters with a non-funky drummer...

 

[GreggBummer]

...This applies to any exercise... In martial arts, this is considered performing with "a normal mind", meaning you can do it without thinking... As you would when using a fork to eat. You don't think about it now... It's normal... But it was pretty tough to use a fork as a child.

This was interesting. I agree with this.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Stylistic aspects that relate to feel can be picked up through listening and imitation. Funk is not a theoretically complex style and the best thing to do, if you have a grasp of how to slap for instance, is to learn songs by ear. That way you're at least doing something that might take work but in process does improve your ear and expand your vocabulary. Even people who know theory backwards need to understand any style they wish to play and listening to it is the only way to achieve that.

I agree with this part - so at Jazz Summerschool, I was lucky to attend a class where the tutor had written out all the parts for several great Stevie Wonder tunes and they looked complicated as hell, I was terrified!!

But of course - as he pointed out - these would all have been learned by the band, by ear and obviously guys like Nathan Watts are not reading from complex charts - they know the music and feel it!

They understand the theory at a deeper level, through playing it and hearing it for many years.

The point is that the theory can pinpoint what it is, that makes the music what it is - but that doesn't mean that if I gave you a chart, you could play it like Nate!!

 

[Joe Nerve]

I wrote a long response to this yesterday, then something happend and it got deleted... :/

I'll give it another go, hopefull shorter. I think I understand yer troubles. I also had no problems jamming and improvising fingerstyle, but slapping threw me for a loop. Was stuck with real basic stuff and it was difficult for me to really get going with it. Pretty sure it's becuase you're not dealing with single notes anymore and now you have to make sure all your notes fit into what you're doing both sonically and rhythmically. Not that your not doing that fingerstyle, but the rhythems can get pretty complex slapping, and without knowing a bunch of theory (I don't either) it takes time, practice, and experience to make sure all the notes are gonna land in the right place. I did a few things that helped out a lot...

First was jamming with myself w a metronome, slowly. Creating different patterns that I could only play at a slow speed and then speeding them up. It helped to build my slap vocabulary which made jamming a lot eaiser. Realized also I was limiting myself to a small handful of phrases before that.

I also started picking up a lot of different bassists licks. There is sooo much that can be done slapping, and I was kinda limiting myself to a handful of flea riffs, and the stuff I learned from the slap bass program.

Lastly, when practicing on my own I'd go through a lot of the covers I know slapping and improvising to them instead of playing whatever the regular fingerstyle part is. Slowing songs down (windows media player does a great job) helps. Opens up lots of jamming/learning potential for me.

Takes time, patience, experience, and an open mind. Like with anything else, the more you put into it the more you'll get out.

 

[ThatGuyLewis]

Wow, i really didn't think for starters that it would be nearly this many posts that turned up, and I'd like to thank you all for commenting.

I suppose if you all are saying that at least basic knowledge of theory are important for Funk and Funk-Rock, then I suppose I can try and learn it again, as somebody said it may just be a bad teacher.

Also, I haven't added the fact that I've never had a bass teacher, merely someone who teaches music theory. So I'm going to try and actually get a bass teacher, and one who teaches rock and funk at that.

Finally, I have noticed that a lot of you have mentioned that I should be playing in a band, well I'm a little stuck there because the only person that I'd be able to play with (a guitarist) only started learning three months ago so is obviously not at a level to play with yet (and is still trying to find a teacher). Sooo yeah. :/

Thank you.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Well - playing with a drummer is basically a pre-requisite for getting funky!

Joe makes a good point about the metronome, though - if you can subdivide the bar into 16 and play in time with a metronome, you are going to make progress in this direction and many others!!

So - imagine that the metronome is a drummer playing on the 2 and 4 of the bar and then try to fit 16 notes in between - so like 1234 - 2234 - 3234 - 4234 .....? Maybe tapping your foot on the 1?

 

[WormWoodSoup]

good outlook thatguylewis! to play with a good drummer who could subdivide, that would set your funk on the way up. And if that drummer wants to learn funk too, that's even great! Learning with someone who has the same passion with you is the way to go. But if you couldn't find someone at the moment, a metronome with suffice right now... follow the subdivision advice above my post.

 

[gm2_in_co]

I suppose if you all are saying that at least basic knowledge of theory are important for Funk and Funk-Rock, then I suppose I can try and learn it again, as somebody said it may just be a bad teacher.

The problem with a lot of great theoreticians is the same as it is with a lot of great players: They like to show all they know and you as a student get overwhelmed. It takes a real TEACHER to understand what YOU need rather than what THEY want to teach you. Also, don't be afraid to stop taking lessons. I take them for a few weeks, then digest that material until I run "dry" and go back for more. Don't forget to avail yourself of all avenues. While there are some terrible teaching videos on youtube, etc., there are also some very good ones... at least for my way of learning.

 

[guroove]

First, I'm going to reiterate what others have said about the importance of learning theory only because my other tidbit doesn't make sense without knowing some theory.

The Dorian and Mixolydian modes are the 2 scales you NEED to know in order to be funky. Your hands need to know these modes as well as your brain.

Also, major 6ths and minor 7ths are funky.

As for understanding what a 16th note is, just listen to What is Hip by Tower of Power.

To get a funky feel without the need to go too deep into theory, learn some simple James Brown bass lines like Sex Machine, Pass the Peas, or Super Bad. Sometimes you need some mindless fun when you get frustrated with too much theory. If Super Bad doesn't make you want to jump out of your pants when you blast it and play along, then you're doing something wrong.

 

[HolmeBass]

I agree with the thread so far- some simple theory, get your pentatonics and maybe mixolydian (which is just a major scale with a flatted 7th degree, easy-peasy), and focus on rhythm and beat subdivisions.

Beyond that I'll add that funk and funk-rock are two different things for me. Bruce L sort of explored this by noting that the Chilli Peppers, while they can be quite funky, and I think Flea is a bad mama-jama, no doubt, are not really deep funk like James Brown, Parliament/Funkadelic, Ohio Players, Mandril, and the funky sides of Stevie Wonder and Earth, Wind, and Fire.

I am also a bit surprised that no one has mentioned the importance of the rhythm guitar yet. I see funk as the bass, the drums, and the rhythm guitar (or guitars) and possibly a funky keyboard (clav, anyone?) each coming up with a minimal syncopated part where all the parts lock together into a *pocket*, a funky pocket that ends up, through blissful trancy repetition, becoming much more than the sum of its parts.

Oh I almost forgot- you like to slap? Check out some Brothers Johnson. Louis Johnson is one of the pillars of slap and funk bass.

 

[ThatGuyLewis]

I agree with the thread so far- some simple theory, get your pentatonics and maybe mixolydian (which is just a major scale with a flatted 7th degree, easy-peasy), and focus on rhythm and beat subdivisions.

Beyond that I'll add that funk and funk-rock are two different things for me. Bruce L sort of explored this by noting that the Chilli Peppers, while they can be quite funky, and I think Flea is a bad mama-jama, no doubt, are not really deep funk like James Brown, Parliament/Funkadelic, Ohio Players, Mandril, and the funky sides of Stevie Wonder and Earth, Wind, and Fire.

I am also a bit surprised that no one has mentioned the importance of the rhythm guitar yet. I see funk as the bass, the drums, and the rhythm guitar (or guitars) and possibly a funky keyboard (clav, anyone?) each coming up with a minimal syncopated part where all the parts lock together into a *pocket*, a funky pocket that ends up, through blissful trancy repetition, becoming much more than the sum of its parts.

Oh I almost forgot- you like to slap? Check out some Brothers Johnson. Louis Johnson is one of the pillars of slap and funk bass.

What you said about Funk and Funk-Rock being very different intrigued me as I never thought that they might be so difference, excuse me if I seem stupid because of it but a lot of the time, Funk-Rock seems to me to be exactly that, Funky lines put too rock. I suppose then if i really wanted to sum it up, i am heavily interested in Funk-Rock slapping, and some Funk-Rock fingerstyle.

However this does not mean that I am not interested in Funk at all, for I adore Larry Graham's playing style, and the sound of a funk guitar (e.g. just constant chords, sorry i don't know the chords used or anything) is one of the most wonderful sounds I've heard, e.g. Love Rollercoaster.

 

[ThatGuyLewis]

and sorry for this once again (I feel so stupid compared to all you lot going on about this scale and that scale etc.), but I tried looking for how to play the dorian scale (and i assume its the same with the mixoyldian) and it asks me for a root, errr what do i do? :L (im only 15 so sorrry. :L)

 

[gm2_in_co]

and sorry for this once again (I feel so stupid compared to all you lot going on about this scale and that scale etc.), but I tried looking for how to play the dorian scale (and i assume its the same with the mixoyldian) and it asks me for a root, errr what do i do? :L (im only 15 so sorrry. :L)

If you are playing a C chord, any flavor of C chord really, the "root" is C. (Second or "A" string, third fret) G chord, root is G, etc.

 

[ThatGuyLewis]

First, I'm going to reiterate what others have said about the importance of learning theory only because my other tidbit doesn't make sense without knowing some theory.

The Dorian and Mixolydian modes are the 2 scales you NEED to know in order to be funky. Your hands need to know these modes as well as your brain.

Also, major 6ths and minor 7ths are funky.

As for understanding what a 16th note is, just listen to What is Hip by Tower of Power.

To get a funky feel without the need to go too deep into theory, learn some simple James Brown bass lines like Sex Machine, Pass the Peas, or Super Bad. Sometimes you need some mindless fun when you get frustrated with too much theory. If Super Bad doesn't make you want to jump out of your pants when you blast it and play along, then you're doing something wrong.

If you are playing a C chord, any flavor of C chord really, the "root" is C. (Second or "A" string, third fret) G chord, root is G, etc.

Yes but what I mean is, as the top quote says, it just says to learn the dorian and the mixolydian scale, well which one? C, D, E, etc?

 

[guroove]

Yes but what I mean is, as the top quote says, it just says to learn the dorian and the mixolydian scale, well which one? C, D, E, etc?

Learn them in every key! Once you learn a mode in one key, you should be able to transpose it to other keys.

 

[mambo4]

Sicne the OP has a touch of theorophobia, i thought I'd paste my usual screed.

Theory is a like a tower of blocks of knowledge, each require knowing the lower blocks to be solid.
Theory only seems confusing to begninners because people rarely explain what order to learn things.

I'd say the logical progression learning music theory is this:

1.) Learn the major scale, and how it's constructed
2.) Learn how basic chords are built from the major scale- e.g Major is 1,3,5, minor is 1,b3, 5, etc.
3.) Learn how to harmonize the notes of any diatonic major scale by building chords / stacking thirds.
4.) Learn arppegios/chord tones
5.) Learn to look at common chord progressions as "numerals" (eg, I-IV-V ect) to understand how the chords relate to the song's key.
6.) Learn the Natural Minor scale (a/k/a Aeolian mode) and the dominant scale (a/k/a Mixolydian); And learn how these relate to the major scale (i.e.; its the V and vi mode)
7.) Understand how other 4 modes of the major scale are derived (less important to memorize these other modes at first)
8.) Dive back into modes for more detailed ideas about what "goes" with what chord.

Bass playing is basically a matter of knowing what to play over various chords. It may seem daunting at first, but my practical experience (bass in pop/rock) has been that I mostly use Major, Minor, and Dominant 7 related bassline patterns, usually based on chord tones and pentatonics. Even if you're playing some guitar oriented riff-rock, each riff is going to imply a chord of some kind.

 

[JimK]

So there are some pretty funky tunes on Blood Sugar Sex Magik - - but they are not funky like Parliament, Headhunters or EWF etc. It's not what they want to be...?

IMO, RHCP were/are about mixing Funk w/ Punk, etc.
Practically all their influences (if you read their interviews) are R&B/Funk & Punk guys. They covered The Meters, Sly, Stevie Wonder, etc.
OK, & so they covered Looking Glass...big deal.
Funny how you mentioned Parliament & The Headhunters...for a brief time, Blackbird McKnight played in the RHCP (IIRC, Blackbird had previously played in both P-Funk & The Headhunters).

 

[insain]

if you want to learn slap-funk, start with louis graham. listen to classic slap funk, flea is good but he doesnt rate against LG. and remember funk is about space in between notes, and play on the 1