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How to get a tone like Jack Bruce (Cream)

#201
A lot of the comments here are really not that accurate. from a dinosaur's perspective who used thesame gear back then and the same gear as the 2005 concert this is what I know:

1. Jack did not use Felix's EB1. (already covered in a previous thread) There is a Jack Bruce DVD where he states that Dan Armstrong found it for him and made several modifications so he could tour with Ringo's Allstars and get a "Beatle" sound.

2. Jack uses a Double Bass plucking style which thumps the strings very hard and contributes to teh distortion and breakdown on his tone and sound. He also plucks the strings closer to the bass pickup and not close to the bridge pick up as most bass players do.

3. On an EB3, set the Bridge volume to full and the tone to about 3-4. Set the Bass pickup to about 7 and the tone to about the same as for the bridge pick up. The 4 way rotary switch is set on 3.

4. Using Hartke amps, He biamps using a HA 5500 500 W head into an 8x10 cab (VX Paper cones in the CREAM reunion and XL Aluminium cones in later concerts). Teh second amp is a HA 3500 driving a 1x15 XL cab

5. The EQ is set differently for each guitar:
a) Gibson EB 1 - cut on the low frequencies, mids about nutral and highs up. Thnink of a sloping bird landing with wings expanded and sloping upwards.
b) Warwick Thumb - The classic frown with mids excentuated.

I own this gear and used it in a classic 3 piece so have had the chance to thump it hard.


Because you are using a EPI EB O it will not have the note separation as teh EB3 with the additional pickup. You will loose clarity and punch on the middle and top end. You wil need to cut bass and add middle and highs accordingly on your amp and thump the strings very hard.

Lastly, Jack used light guage Labella Flat Wounds in CREAM so he could bend and pull the strings. With the Warwick he used SIT Mediums guage round wounds with a 050" G string.

Hope this helps.
 
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#203
As noted, EB3/SG bass both pickups on, tone fully open.
For amp settings, crank the volume, try turning the mids all the way up, bass at about 7, and treble rolled down to about 4.
I would also recommend Pyramid Flats, as Im fairly sure those were his strings of choice back in the day.
Note: strike the strings aggressively, somewhere in between the neck and bridge pickups.
 
#205
Jack Bruce was a stand-up bass player. He went to electric bass because he said Ginger Baker was the loudest drummer he had worked with. He used various EB-3's, but settled on one with a four postion switch, using postion 3 as his set-up. His Marshalls, usually the 100 watt ones, although they had Jim Marshall make them 200 watt ones also which they said were too loud, with the volume knob set at 11 and the mid-range all the way up also. Dan Armstrong installed 20 or 30 mfd capacitors across the Tone pots to cut out the low end( info from jacks book and Dan Armstrongs son Kent).
 
#206
Gearhead43 said:
I just joined a band playing 60s style Rock n Roll and electric blues, etc.

I picked up a cheap, but very good sounding Epi EB-0, and it sounds perfect for the style of music.

Anyway, I have been using a BDI21 for a bit of overdriven tone. It sounds good, but not like Jack.

Anyone a big Jack Bruce Cream era fan here? and is there a good way to approximate a tone similar to his, outside of playing thru multiple Marshall 100watt tube amps with 4x12 stacks? (his live rig, hahaha)

I just want to get close, tone wise with the right effects or combo of effects. I use an SWR head w/two 2-10 Avatar cabs so the rig alone isn't going to do it.

I want to try the VT Bass Sansamp, I have an idea that might get me close enough.

Thanks for any ideas.
Click to expand...


Ive always wanted that same sound too,..and after experimenting with all sorts of ideas,.the best way to do it (that I found) was to use no pedals of any kind,.just crank the gain up all the way on your amp head,..use the master volume as you see fit (such that the bass doesnt overwhelm the rest of the band) and also,.have your bass pick-up volume maxed.
It honestly works even better with a Gibson SG Bass (new or old,.vintage doesnt necessarily matter).
If you do own an actual Gibson SG Bass,.turn up the bridge pick up all the way. Use the neck pick up to round out the tone if u like.

That "Bruce" tone,.that sort of natural distortion,..comes from both playing fairly strong in the hands,..and by maxing out your speakers via the gain.
You can easily do it on a 100 watt cabinet (or less wattage).
A real high end cabinet with real high wattage is harder to achieve that natural distortion on because modern electronics and speaker design have improved such that distortion is less likely to happen.
Im guessing that Jack discovered this sound by accident,.just by turning all his knobs to the max,..he had 100 watt cabinets (multiples of them daisey chained together).

The "natural distortion" you get out of that Gibson SG bridge pick-up is second to none. There just isnt a pedal that emulates that "touch-sensitive" feel of having that naturally distorted bass guitar.

Just grab a practice amp and a Gibson SG Bass,..you'll see what i mean,..its hard to put it down once you dial it in.

I hope this helps (i know its a late reply)
 
#207
To get that J. Bruce sound,..you just need to crank the gain on your amp head (and use the master volume to set the actual volume to suit with the rest of your band).
It honestly helps to have a Gibson SG Bass,..not to be so geeky about his sound,..its just that bridge pick-up.
Crank the volume knob for the bridge pick-up,.and use the neck pick up to taste.

Just try a Gibson SG Bass on any practice amp in a guitar store. Crank the bridge pick up and the volume on the amp (if there is no gain knob),..its easier to achive that natural distortion on amps of 100 watts or less without having to sound so damn loud.
On amps of 200 watts or more,.you can absolutely get that sound,..you're just gonna be really really loud when you do it :-)

I hope this helps.
There also just isnt a pedal out there that emulates that natural "touch sensitive" distortion of a gibson sg bass (particularly the bridge pick up)
It can be a new or vintage SG bass,..mine is a 2005 model,.and it does that old classic Jack tone perfectly.

Just dial it in,..once you do, you'll have a hard time stopping :-)
 
#208
Supa Scoopa said:
The Disraeli Gears tone? I dunno, turn down the tone and drive it a bit to make it fuzzy I guess... I never really saw the appeal of Jack Brucks bass tone back then. Fantastic player though.
Click to expand...
If you were in the concert halls and sports arenas in the 60s, before sound men could get it together- Jack's honkin mids cut thru all the boom in the room. Took me a while to figure that out - saw Deep Purple same era and couldn't hear anything because of the bass boom. It was the only way to be heard, back in the day. Very smart, although I'm sure Mr Baker would disagree ;-)
 
#209
For the Creme era studio tone you hear on their albums, a MusicMan Stingray and any transparent amp, just dial in the growl, and use his right hand attack, and left hand hammer on methods. For the Cream Live sound, I have no clue because I've never heard them live in person, only heard the crappy live recording of the 60s and 70s.
 
#211
I play anywhere from one to three Cream tunes at a weekly gig and my best luck has been trying to emulate Jack's attack combined with a Fairfield Accountant compressor with the Pad switch set at 3 (-0db) - I also use the "1" position on the ratio switch, but once you put that pad switch to 3, there will be some hair on that tone, even with fairly weak pickups.

That isn't "how do you get that tone" - it's "how do I get the tone that I personally like for the material." I've done it with four different basses with completely different pickup/string configurations (although all were 31" scale Birdsongs).
 
#212
Since I've been converting from long-scale to SS instruments lately, I read through all this with considerable interest. It took several days, but I got though it all, and even learned a few things. Through all the debate and bickering about "tone is all in your fingers" / "tone is in your rig" / "tone is 50/50 or somewhere in between" there was also a good bit of good info. Lately I've been lusting for a real Gibson EB-3/SG. All I presently own is the Epiphone long-scale version, which doesn't really sound exactly like the SS Gibson. Besides, at my age (64), SS basses are easier to play.

One thing I've learned over time...People (even bass players) all hear differently. In this case, some people hear mainly style & technique, and may pay less attention to "sound" & "tone". Some others seem to hear the sound & tone more, and can either separate it from style & technique, or perhaps just hear the style & technique less, and the sound & tone more. I think it's a difference in how we hear bass lines. It's OK...both camps are important to getting great sounding bass lines.

In my mind, as someone who's played bass professionally for nearly 50 years, and also spent quite a few years as a recording engineer, the two are easy (for me at least) to separate. To be sure, someones playing style, technique, and proficiency can (but doesn't always) very much influence their sound and tone. In the studio however, I can make even a moderately proficient bass player (like myself) have a similar sound & tone to almost anyone, on any record. This does NOT mean that they (or I) can duplicate their style, technique, or their proficiency. The sound or tone of their live rig, or the recording can be made to sound similar however. There's no doubt about this...I've done it dozens of times.

I can't tell ya how many times I've heard great players playing through lousy sounding rigs, and thought...Wow, I wish they had a decent sounding rig. At the same time, I can't count the number of times I've heard average, or below average players with very good sounding rigs, and thought...Gee, I sure wish they could play better, and make the most of that fine sounding gear.

Does this mean I can fool a good bass player into thinking I'm Jack?...No, probably not. He was a way better player than me. But I can make my sound & tone quite similar to his in the Cream days, and that's a start. In many cases, it might be as close as a lot of us pedestrian, "journeyman" bassists can come.

We can't all be Jack, Chris Squire, James Jamerson, Greg Lake, Victor Wooten, etc...but with some research and money well spent we can at least approximate their sound and tone during a phase of their playing. Certainly the more we practice, the closer we can get to fooling the really critical ears of Jimmy, Pedro etc, who seem to hear the style, technique, and proficiency more acutely than the sound & tone. To them, the tone IS mostly in the fingers, and God bless them for it. They way they hear bass lines may well make them better players in the long-run. Now, I need to go practice.
 
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#213
JimmyM said:
What will get you closest to sounding like Jack Bruce is playing like Jack Bruce. On the Cream reunion DVD clips I saw, he was using Felix Pappalardi's old Gibson EB-1 into a wall of Hartkes and he sounded like Jack Bruce. On the Ringo Starr clip of him playing Sunshine Of Your Love with Peter Frampton, he played a fretless Warwick into a stack of Hartkes and he sounded like Jack Bruce. So rather than looking to equipment, you're better served looking to how he plays the bass itself.
Click to expand...
was it really Pappalardi's. It would make sense, but I never really thought of it. And your referring to the 2005 reunion, which makes sense.
 
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#217
HI I have just joined this group..just started thinking about playing Bass Guitar (at 71) for backing tracks!started playing or should I say singing in bands or groups as we first called them in England in the 50's 60's Drawn to this forum as I was always interested in listening to
Jack Bruce's bass playing ( as well as one of the best vocalists ever not to mention compositions) I have always appreciated Bass players I have performed with except someone called paul who we nicknamed (clunk click every riff) rough technique! having read page after page of JB tones and gear I am surprised that no one has mentioned strings was it La bella flatwounds he used in the sixties and I think he said ..as long as it doesn't sound like a fender! saw Jack a few times as I wanted to make my own backing tracks I wondered about Bassy things on a Guitar synth GR 55 not the same so as a first Bass owned not played... pissing about on band members Basses for a few minutes decided after much thought on a Gibson EB5!!!! waiting for delivery didn't want any sort of a twangy sound wanted a thick sounding bugger...I saw by accident Jaco Pastorius ( WR ) in Manchester in the mid seventies I think I thought he was good but not my type ( I thought he was from Brazil) Jack liked him.. also Jack liked the Bass player in the blockheads so did I very interesting and melodic I thought the run down in Why Dontya was one of the most interesting bits of playing ever! Well done Bass players didn't Jack say something like "just listen and you will know what to play"as a lead singer for most of my 60ish music years although I play a good rhythm guitar ( where would we be without rhythm ) you are aware that everything played is just for you to polish and highlight! Jack had both being the driving force of a band and also way at the front as a great vocalist and writer. best Regards Jon Yorkshire England.
 
#218
I have approximated Cream era Jack tone with a SVT ,Darkglass Compressor and Overdrive and coping his phrasing with an EB3 and EB1 and 56 Gibson Electric Bass.
I found Andy Fraser to be harder to do due to his timing.
I didn't sound exactly like Jack but close enough for the girls I go with.
And Jack always sounded like Jack to me .
 
#219
JimmyM said:
What will get you closest to sounding like Jack Bruce is playing like Jack Bruce. On the Cream reunion DVD clips I saw, he was using Felix Pappalardi's old Gibson EB-1 into a wall of Hartkes and he sounded like Jack Bruce. On the Ringo Starr clip of him playing Sunshine Of Your Love with Peter Frampton, he played a fretless Warwick into a stack of Hartkes and he sounded like Jack Bruce. So rather than looking to equipment, you're better served looking to how he plays the bass itself.
Click to expand...

This is a wonderfully accurate assessment except the Felix bass has been disputed many many times. The Hartkes were actually 2 separate rigs utilizing a 500W head into an 800W paper speaker VX 8x10 box with a separate 350@ head into a 1x15 Aluminium coned XL box.
Set on the left and set on the right and the heads were EQ'd for the 2 basses he played so at any one time, 1 pair or 800W RMS was being used. I have owned and played bigger Hartke rigs in a 3 piece so know the gear intimately.
Some clues.......
1. Round wound strings were rare to non existent in the '60's. I never saw them on any bass until the early 70's.
2. Jack said he used light weight Labella's back then so they will be flats.
3. His tone said "plucked over the treble pick up (Which is more comfortable on an EB3) but the pics of him playing were more forward of that. This indicates more treble in his tones so if you look at the 4-Way Varitone selector switch, he is often set on position 2 which was the treble pick up only.
4. There were no effects other than reverb back (and Wah Pedals) then so no pedals.
5. 12" speakers carried a lot of punch as the wattage was small compared to today and the speakers were breaking down. In today's market, I still prefer 12's though 10 inch do a very good job also in quad boxes so a minimum of 4 speakers needed.
6. The bass guitar pioneers used valve amps in those days so the tone is thick and warm with punch.
7. The Eppi-BO with recreated (to look the part) Bass pick up will be too dull to emulate Jack's sound so I would recommend matching it with a Hartke rig to brighten it a little.
8. Jack used SIT strings in later years and they are very good and there is a lot of variations to choose from.
Hope this helps.
 
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