How to get student to learn the fretboard

[DougD]

What has worked for me is to have them learn this grid (I call it "the musical alphabet")
A-A#(Bb)-B-C-C#(Db)-D-D#(Eb)-E-F-F#(Gb)-G-G#(Ab)-A
I explain to them that for our purposes there are 1/2 steps between E-F and B-C (that takes away the Cb and Fb that may be confusing at first). I explain to them that as we are going up in pitch (toward the bass body) we are going forward in the alphabet and as we're going down in pitch we are going backwards. I then have them play and call the notes on each string up to the 12th fret with #s going up and flats going down. We then look at from the 12th fret up and I explain to them that it's the same pattern as the bottom 12 frets. It's pretty effective.

Yea, that he knows. Maybe I'm not explaining this like I should. It's like he's afraid to venture out past root whacker land for fear of causing a train wreck. When I try to get him to explore during a tune, if he hits a sour note, he goes right back to root whacking. Ive taught him notes, intervals, scales and modes, basic sight reading. Now I'm trying to tie it all together for him, but I think he is afraid to "venture out" because of fear of the "wrong note" and sounding bad. When it's all laid out for him, he does ok. Not great, but ok. So could transcribing (from other instruments) get him out of his fear? If so, I might need to refer him to someone more skilled at that than I am. Or maybe he just needs to keep plugging away until it sinks in?

 

[Vincent P]

I found this while searching for a method.

Learn to play Bass guitar with the Don't Fret Note Map for Bass

 

[Stumbo]

Does the kid have problems memorizing stuff for school? Possible learning disability?

 

[DougD]

If he knows his scales and modes as you say then he knows the neck, or are we talking about more than naming notes and finding them on the neck?

If it is about his improv skills and his lack of note choice then what you need is a key to open him up. In that case i would always say chord tone exercises. Chord tone exercises are the links between chords, scales, triad, etc that work harmonically all over the bass fretboard, the Jeff Berlin exercises are quite brilliant in their simplicity, and may be the bit that is missing. Each to their own in learning and each learn to understand in their own way, learning something should mean it is internalised, not just recited. When it is learned and internalised it is a foundation to build and connect losts of ideas with leaps of thought.

If you want a copy of Jeffs chord tone exercises drop me a PM with an e-mail address and i will send it on.

Good idea, I'll give Mr Berlin a try.

 

[David1234]

I get students to beat the clock - I'll say "see if you can find all the C's in 30 second" and time them. Beginners usually take 2+ minutes to work it out. They then learn that "octave in a box" makes the job easier, as does the pattern of dots on the fingerboard matching the bottom octave to the top octave.

As for getting a student to venture past root whacking, expanding their vocabulary from 1's to 1 4 5 7 or 14 5 b7 as appropriate for the key (again, in the octave box) is usually not too hard. Past that I teach the major scale, and other scales always in reference to the major. So, dorian is major but flat 3 and flat 7. Some students can't really hear this but most can, especially if I've been able to get them to sing a major scale and sing other scales by varying the major.

 

[sethlow3]

If he's good at everything else. Make it a primary focus for part of a lesson for starters. Tell him WHY it's important too.

 

[sunnycal]

Ok as a new student I will add my 2 cents worth. Break down the neck up to the 7th fret then explain how it repeats itself one string down and begins all over again at the 12th fret.

It also helps me that I learned that I can move 2 down and two over to the righ or number 8 to the next octave, or 3 down and 3 over to the left. This gives me a way to put things in context as I play.

What has been helping me a lot in just 2 days is the exercise my teacher just gave me. Find as many of the notes as possible playing my way up or is it down (remember I'm new) the neck. I am also supposed to play those notes in time. I find it fun, a challenge and useful.

I even play arpeggios in as many places as possible just to make it interesting. Just by focusing on E & A strings and moving 2 down and 2 over you can learn a lot. So excuse me if I've offended any of you experienced teachers. I just adding a beginners perspective.

 

[Asher S]

Well, of course, but they are useful tools for learning the notes on the neck. You don't need a bass in your hands to do that.

But why bother when you can practice on the real thing? The only time those apps are useful is if you don't have access to your bass such as when you're on a plane.

 

[lokerola]

I've been using this in conjunction with practicing on my actual Bass. I do 10 mins in the morning and 10 or 15 mins at lunch and it's helping me learn the fretboard for sure.

Absolute Fretboard - Learning Method And Training Software For Guitar And Bass

 

[sethlow3]

But why bother when you can practice on the real thing? The only time those apps are useful is if you don't have access to your bass such as when you're on a plane.

Exactly... I think that's what everyone is saying here. BOTH are the answer. Mainly though, it's all in the brain and knowing which both approaches would facilitate.

 

[ppal]

one exercise I do with my students is just have them learn where the E/F, and B/C notes are on every string, just the semi-tones (start slow with just one string at a time). Then everything else is just whole steps on that same string (this is just for all the "Natural" notes of the fretboard). Once they get that far, its easy to just flat or sharp a note.

 

[Ronnietex]

What a great board Talkbass.com is. Impressive, very impressive.

 

[DougD]

Great ideas every one Thanks for the help. I think I now have a better understanding of how to proceed. Or at least some good ideas to try out

 

[guy n. cognito]

But why bother when you can practice on the real thing? The only time those apps are useful is if you don't have access to your bass such as when you're on a plane.

Well, the OP seems to be having a hard time getting his student to learn the notes when he has the "real thing" in his hand, so I'm offering alternate suggestions that not only work, but might be more appealing to a young kid who is acclimated to digital devices.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

Thanks for the requests for the Jeff Berlin Chord Tone exercises.
Point of fact it is a PDF of the article Jeff wrote in Bass Player Magazine, so it is one sheet, with Jeff explaining how and why the work.

So everyone that requested one it has been sent, and those that had any questions about it have now been hopefully answered.
I am in no way associated with Jeff Berlin or The Players School in Florida LOL, just passing on great info from the man himself to those that may have missed his ideas.

But why bother when you can practice on the real thing? The only time those apps are useful is if you don't have access to your bass such as when you're on a plane.

Simple answer is it is another way to learn and understand, you do not need a bass( or any instrument) to learn music, but you do need one to play it. Engaging the brain in this way means you take out any physical blocks, thats why transcribing is a great way to learn a song completely after learning it by ear.

 

[1958Bassman]

Yea, that he knows. Maybe I'm not explaining this like I should. It's like he's afraid to venture out past root whacker land for fear of causing a train wreck. When I try to get him to explore during a tune, if he hits a sour note, he goes right back to root whacking. Ive taught him notes, intervals, scales and modes, basic sight reading. Now I'm trying to tie it all together for him, but I think he is afraid to "venture out" because of fear of the "wrong note" and sounding bad. When it's all laid out for him, he does ok. Not great, but ok. So could transcribing (from other instruments) get him out of his fear? If so, I might need to refer him to someone more skilled at that than I am. Or maybe he just needs to keep plugging away until it sinks in?

Do you have him play the melody of the songs? If he can't play along with the song, he'll never learn, or know, the fingerboard. Playing based on knowing which notes fit according to music theory is not a good way to play. It's anything but musical. There's no way someone will be a good player when they can't play along with what someone else is playing, whether it's live or recorded. What does he propose to do if someone calls for a modulation in the middle of a song- keep steaming along in the key he has been playing? Playing requires listening.

 

[1958Bassman]

one exercise I do with my students is just have them learn where the E/F, and B/C notes are on every string, just the semi-tones (start slow with just one string at a time). Then everything else is just whole steps on that same string (this is just for all the "Natural" notes of the fretboard). Once they get that far, its easy to just flat or sharp a note.

That's great when you play in C Major, or do you have them find the natural half steps in all keys?

 

[1958Bassman]

I'm not a teacher but I have taught in the past. I was also one of those students who hated practicing because I would much rather play than repeat the same things over and over. I knew/know it's a means to an end- repeating those patterns causes muscle memory and, eventually, playing it comes naturally but I preferred playing along with music that was far beyond my abilities at the time. It helped my ear to an amazing degree and it also made me find the notes on the fretboard. Drove my teacher crazy that I could play things but not know what it was or how/why it fit. I could sit with sheet music and figure it out but not with the instrument, on the fly. That was 30+ years ago.

Now, I think in terms of which notes I need to play, where the song is going and the intervals but only because the freedom from searching for the notes allows me to try to be creative.

 

[MontzterMash]

Yea, that he knows. Maybe I'm not explaining this like I should. It's like he's afraid to venture out past root whacker land for fear of causing a train wreck. When I try to get him to explore during a tune, if he hits a sour note, he goes right back to root whacking. Ive taught him notes, intervals, scales and modes, basic sight reading. Now I'm trying to tie it all together for him, but I think he is afraid to "venture out" because of fear of the "wrong note" and sounding bad. When it's all laid out for him, he does ok. Not great, but ok. So could transcribing (from other instruments) get him out of his fear? If so, I might need to refer him to someone more skilled at that than I am. Or maybe he just needs to keep plugging away until it sinks in?

Boy, that reminded me of this great book I recently read:

Perfect Wrong Note by William Westney

There's a lot of good stuff in there for both students and teachers, and would apply to pretty much any creative field (I've actually been trying out the ideas at work, which has nothing to do with music).

 

[Fergie Fulton]

Thanks for the requests for the Jeff Berlin Chord Tone exercises.
Point of fact it is a PDF of the article Jeff wrote in Bass Player Magazine, so it is one sheet, with Jeff explaining how and why the work.

So everyone that requested one it has been sent, and those that had any questions about it have now been hopefully answered.
I am in no way associated with Jeff Berlin or The Players School in Florida LOL, just passing on great info from the man himself to those that may have missed his ideas.

The reason cannot post it is because it is copyright..end of story. Yes the information is generally known and accepted as fact , but for me to post it i would have to re-write the musical part of the information, so it becomes my work, not Jeffs. As a pro i am bound by copyright and have to comply to do what i do, a point many may not understand, it is complicted in law but simple in life, don't use or reproduce other material for gain.
I can rewrite the exercises but not the narrative.

But in that is the problem, because it then becomes me saying it not Jeff Berlin. So it loses credability because it is not a living bass legend telling you but an un-known journeyman.

To speed the process up( my TB in box is filling fast) and ease the cut and paste, get me direct on e-mail at [email protected]