BS. Sorry but it is. Being able to play the solo from Maxwell Murder means you can play someone else's solo. I have more respect for someone who can write 12 songs in their entirety. And even more respect if they're good songs!
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How to know if you're good?
- Thread starter AlphaMale
- Start date
Jimmy - for you, would "moving somebody emotionally" with your playing include making them want to dance? I'm guessing it would.
I never really think of myself as the sort of player that really gets people emotionally. But I sure as hell like to think that I can make people want to dance, even if it's just a few at each gig.
I never really think of myself as the sort of player that really gets people emotionally. But I sure as hell like to think that I can make people want to dance, even if it's just a few at each gig.
Personally, the biggest turn-off is someone shredding. I never have and never will understand the mentality behind "how fast can you play?" and that being the measure of a good musician. Now, of course, I'm not putting down people who can play fast and are very good at it. I can appreciate the technical skill involved, but it's not music to my ears. Give me someone plucking some fat, heavy, notes rather than someone banging out endless runs of 32nd notes.
So, my answer to the original question is that you should never think of yourself as "good" and certainly not "great". Think of yourself as "alright" and on a never ending learning experience. Always be open to new things and never get too comfortable with yourself. If you do, that's when you think your great and everyone else is rolling their eyes.
So, my answer to the original question is that you should never think of yourself as "good" and certainly not "great". Think of yourself as "alright" and on a never ending learning experience. Always be open to new things and never get too comfortable with yourself. If you do, that's when you think your great and everyone else is rolling their eyes.
As has been said-this is a question with no objective/correct answer. I'll give my OPINION, however. I'd say that within 6 months a good goal would be to know the major and minor scales, as well as all the modes of the major scale, each in 3 fingering patterns (beginning with index, middle and pinky). The idea is to know them sideways, in your sleep and upside down, played in 3rds, 5ths, etc. If you plan on music to earn a living, add the modes of the harmonic minor scale. Then learn them diagonally across the entire fretboard. These are what soloing AND harmony are based on. If, within a couple of years, you can apply these fluidly and appropriately to the tunes you're playing, you'll be a very competent player. IMHO measuring yourself based on the tunes you can play isn't nearly as relevant. If you doubt me, it was Jaco, on one of his instructional videos, who responded "it's really all about scales, Man", when asked how he practices. Similarly, Geddy Lee's playing is a study in modes, and Carlos Santana's playing is not only often modal, but frequently relies on 1 mode (Dorian). Yes, some great player know little or no theory, but those you mention (like VW) know a lot AND use it. If you can become conversant in this stuff within a couple of years AND have a good rt hand feel, AND can groove, you'll be "good" IMHO. Getting gigs, or getting people to want you to play with them is another matter that will depend just as much on whether they like/respect you and enjoy your company. Apologies if the last bit wasn't directly asked for, but with a moniker like you've chosen, you can likely expect truckloads more from those you encounter down the road.
Absolutely it would! And even though I respect the book learning aspect of playing and use it often, what's important is moving people.Jimmy - for you, would "moving somebody emotionally" with your playing include making them want to dance? I'm guessing it would.
I never really think of myself as the sort of player that really gets people emotionally. But I sure as hell like to think that I can make people want to dance, even if it's just a few at each gig.
I'll try to answer your question, but it still won't be the perfect answer you're looking for.
ONE know he/she plays well when people enjoy what he/she plays (parent's and grandparents don't count, but brothers and sisters and complete strangers sure do...
) But how do you get good?
When it comes to the rate of learning, I would like to say skip the time factor completely because there's just too much to learn in music and bass playing and everyone learn things in different order. Stop comparing you with others. However, if you go to a music school you're expected to progress at a certain speed and learning things in a specific order. But when it comes to practical bass playing, it's not really relevant anymore.
If you want to become a good bassist, and maybe become a professional, learn as much as possible. Technique is very important - The better one's technique is, the more songs there is that he/she can play. IOW, technique opens up doors to what you should be able to play. I say "should be" because you need a feel for the music to be able to play it so it's enjoyable for people to listen to.
Timing is AT LEAST as important as the technique. Without a good sense of timing, nothing sounds good.
Another thing that's important if you aim at a professional career is to be able to read music, fluently. I know I'm really terrible at that, which feels very limiting for me. I'm completely lost if I'm only given a paper with a written bass line. But if there's chords also, I can improvise a bass line over the chords that works fine and grooves. BUT it would be better to be able to play the original line straight off AND groove.
The key to become a good bassist is to remove as many limiting factors as possible. And never forget to groove.
Developing your own style is also a very good thing, but only really important if you want to turn up as the next in the line of jaco, rocco, wooten etc...
Hope this helps a bit.....
Awww, to be young again. I have been watching this thread for a little, and wanted to reply. You remind me somewhat of myself when I was your age (at least, given the nature of your replies and posts, this is the impression that I get from you) - just starting bass, very good for the amount of time I have been playing, been in a band or two, maybe just a little bit too cocky for my own good ... just a few thoughts and lessons learned over the 20 years that I have been playing bass and been playing in bands. Not trying to be negative or condescending, just truthful,and believe me, these are all lessons that I learned myself. All my opinion, of course, probably worth what you paid for it ...
1. Music is not a competitive sport. The sooner you stop worrying about everyone else and comparing yourself to everyone else, the better off you will be. There is no first place in bass playing.
2. When you call yourself an Alphamale, talk about shredding and being better than the next guy, people are going to get the impression that you are arrogant and cocky - true or not. The sooner you drop this, the better, as this doesn't work for musicians (unless you are Jaco). No one wants to be in a band with cocky musicians. And after all, true alpha males don't call themselves alphamales, they let others do that. Stay humble. Never say another musician sucks. And remember, no matter how good you are, there is always someone better. Yeah, most of the guys here probably know very little about you, but it is the impressions that you give that people are forming their opinions on. How you act is a measure of maturity.
3. "Good" is an esoteric term. You may be able to play other people's songs, but it is not a measure of how good you are. If you can play "Teen Town" perfectly but can't walk over 12-bar blues, are you good? There is a huge diference between being technically good and being a good bass player/musician. I think a few people have mentioned this before - if you are good, you will know if. If you want to know if you are progressing - that is most likely something that only you can answer. If you are like most bassists, you will have peaks, valleys, plateaus in your playing.
4. You will probably never be mentioned in the same sentence as Wooten, Jaco, Patitucci, etc. Just a fact of life. Doesn't mean you are not good.
5. Keep on it. If people are telling you that you are good, then you probably have talent. Keep practicing. Play with musicians that are older than you. Try some jazz (better yet, try a jazz jam session - sometimes these can be very humbling). Try some hardcore. Try some hip hop. Try some country. Expand your musical knowledge.
6. Back on good - people measure good in many different ways. I won't rehash all of the posts here, but if you truly read them, you will see definitions of good all over the place. Lesson here? Pick your own goals and work for them. Maybe you want to be technically good; maybe you want to be a good jazz player; maybe good is just laying down a solid bottom line; it's all relative. Set goals and try to achieve them. There is no such things as "the best" bass player.
7. Yes, there are probably general measures of bass playing - any first year bassist should probably be able to play any Nirvana tune, etc. But again, depends on your goals. Different players focus on different aspects - a classical player might not be able to swing on a jazz chart - does that mean he/she is not good? That is why you are not getting definitive answers to your question. You may as well ask "what's the best song onthe world" (or maybe "who's the best bass player"). There is no one answer.
Take this all for what it's worth. You are getting a lot of god advice here, I hope you take at least some of it.
Jeff
1. Music is not a competitive sport. The sooner you stop worrying about everyone else and comparing yourself to everyone else, the better off you will be. There is no first place in bass playing.
2. When you call yourself an Alphamale, talk about shredding and being better than the next guy, people are going to get the impression that you are arrogant and cocky - true or not. The sooner you drop this, the better, as this doesn't work for musicians (unless you are Jaco). No one wants to be in a band with cocky musicians. And after all, true alpha males don't call themselves alphamales, they let others do that. Stay humble. Never say another musician sucks. And remember, no matter how good you are, there is always someone better. Yeah, most of the guys here probably know very little about you, but it is the impressions that you give that people are forming their opinions on. How you act is a measure of maturity.
3. "Good" is an esoteric term. You may be able to play other people's songs, but it is not a measure of how good you are. If you can play "Teen Town" perfectly but can't walk over 12-bar blues, are you good? There is a huge diference between being technically good and being a good bass player/musician. I think a few people have mentioned this before - if you are good, you will know if. If you want to know if you are progressing - that is most likely something that only you can answer. If you are like most bassists, you will have peaks, valleys, plateaus in your playing.
4. You will probably never be mentioned in the same sentence as Wooten, Jaco, Patitucci, etc. Just a fact of life. Doesn't mean you are not good.
5. Keep on it. If people are telling you that you are good, then you probably have talent. Keep practicing. Play with musicians that are older than you. Try some jazz (better yet, try a jazz jam session - sometimes these can be very humbling). Try some hardcore. Try some hip hop. Try some country. Expand your musical knowledge.
6. Back on good - people measure good in many different ways. I won't rehash all of the posts here, but if you truly read them, you will see definitions of good all over the place. Lesson here? Pick your own goals and work for them. Maybe you want to be technically good; maybe you want to be a good jazz player; maybe good is just laying down a solid bottom line; it's all relative. Set goals and try to achieve them. There is no such things as "the best" bass player.
7. Yes, there are probably general measures of bass playing - any first year bassist should probably be able to play any Nirvana tune, etc. But again, depends on your goals. Different players focus on different aspects - a classical player might not be able to swing on a jazz chart - does that mean he/she is not good? That is why you are not getting definitive answers to your question. You may as well ask "what's the best song onthe world" (or maybe "who's the best bass player"). There is no one answer.
Take this all for what it's worth. You are getting a lot of god advice here, I hope you take at least some of it.
Jeff
That doesn't seem to be his question. I agree 100% that "am I good" is answerable. But if he wants it answered in terms of what he "should" be able to play then he might as well give up on ever knowing.
#1 Shred rules:
All in 2 octave scales
play 16th notes at 120bpm=beginner
play 32th notes at 120bpm=serious shreding
play 64th notes at 120bpm=the master shred
Then you will be the best of the best.
#2 Bass player rules:
Get a life, practice and play good bass, earn a living at it.
Then you will be happy.
Make the choice grasshopper
All in 2 octave scales
play 16th notes at 120bpm=beginner
play 32th notes at 120bpm=serious shreding
play 64th notes at 120bpm=the master shred
Then you will be the best of the best.
#2 Bass player rules:
Get a life, practice and play good bass, earn a living at it.
Then you will be happy.
Make the choice grasshopper
Thanks yeah I'm really into my theory. And I've been learning theory and have for a while so I guess above.
And you sir, gave me good advice. But I would also like to remind everyone, I never said I could out-shred anyone, I said that I haven't met a less experienced musician who could out-shred me. I will take all the advice you given me because I find it to be true and wise. But just like saying what is the best song in the world, there is no definite answer, but I would at least like people opinions. I really appreciate what you wrote and I am happy to be a member of this forum.
Thanks...I guess. I am not as technical as I wan't to be. I think I just really like that solo and every time I hear it, I pee a little.
It was no small task to write all this music, now, if I can find cool people to play with...
i think if you wanted to look cool or "better" than other people you should've started guitar dude.
why does it mean so much to you anyway? music is meant to be fun! doesn't matter if you can't use tripple floating thumb technique or whatever, just as long as you have fun time jamming with others, then it's worth it
why does it mean so much to you anyway? music is meant to be fun! doesn't matter if you can't use tripple floating thumb technique or whatever, just as long as you have fun time jamming with others, then it's worth it
I'd say you know when you're good when you don't have to compare your self to others and just play. If you're insecure that much about your playing that you have to make sure there is people worse than you I think it shows that your really not fitting in to the role of a bass player. I think you know when your good when you can support others playing around you, and pass on knowledge to them aswell.
- Oct 7, 2000
- 18,619
- 38,939
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
I'm going to give you a visual demonstration of the reason why your measuring stick and question is unanswerable. I believe this is also the reason that so many people are trying to tell you that your ego and way of looking at this may lead you into trouble. I think most of us are coming from a good place and want to help...
Person #1 can play "Tell Me Baby", by the RHCP by month 6 of playing. Damn! He's doing really well. Nobody playing 6 months that he knows, can do this!!:
I guess that means that player one is progressing a lot faster than player 2. I'm pretty sure within a years time he'll also be outshredding him like crazy.
Get it?
Person #1 can play "Tell Me Baby", by the RHCP by month 6 of playing. Damn! He's doing really well. Nobody playing 6 months that he knows, can do this!!:
I guess that means that player one is progressing a lot faster than player 2. I'm pretty sure within a years time he'll also be outshredding him like crazy.
Get it?
I think you got your links mixed up... The first link, the guys timing was a fair bit off.
And stop ratting on your music mates.
I was in jazz band in high school. Be nice to each other. We're all trying to learn.
And stop ratting on your music mates.
I was in jazz band in high school. Be nice to each other. We're all trying to learn.
- Oct 7, 2000
- 18,619
- 38,939
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
