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Double Bass How to play this in time?
- Thread starter Andy Mopley
- Start date
I wasn't studying the notes very carefully. My method to learn a difficult rhythm is:
- analyze first bar beat by beat. Divide the bar into smaller parts. Mostly into beats, in this case perhaps even into eights. Write small subdivision marks below the stave, so you won't have to rethink it when you practise.
- don't play the bass, clap with your fingers. Start simply: learn the first beat (in this case it's a quaver pause, so learn the second). When you are able to play the beat right AGAINST A STEADY PULSE made with leg clapping and then a metronome, go to next beat. When you learn next beat, practise them both together. Then, learn the next beat and practise them all together. Your task is to be able to fingerclap whole bar AGAINST A STEADY PULSE, so that your brain will grasp the rhythm. Playing it on the bass is then very simple, and if not, there are other technical problems to solve like bad fingering or so.
- when you can play the first bar, analyze the second. Typically, the rhythmic differences between bars are not so huge, so this should be faster.
- and so on. Any time you feel you are able to finger clap the rhythm AGAINST A STEADY PULSE, you can try to play in on the bass.
- learn in SLOWER TEMPO. Playing slower is usually harder than playing fast, because all the imperfections are hearable. It's not a shame to practise slow, it's a privilege. When you feel you can do it, alter the tempo. To really learn a rhythm, play it in many tempos.
I think this method was carefully studied by Dave Weckl, and he called the idea Rhythmic microscope. Perhaps there are youtube videos to that effect.
- analyze first bar beat by beat. Divide the bar into smaller parts. Mostly into beats, in this case perhaps even into eights. Write small subdivision marks below the stave, so you won't have to rethink it when you practise.
- don't play the bass, clap with your fingers. Start simply: learn the first beat (in this case it's a quaver pause, so learn the second). When you are able to play the beat right AGAINST A STEADY PULSE made with leg clapping and then a metronome, go to next beat. When you learn next beat, practise them both together. Then, learn the next beat and practise them all together. Your task is to be able to fingerclap whole bar AGAINST A STEADY PULSE, so that your brain will grasp the rhythm. Playing it on the bass is then very simple, and if not, there are other technical problems to solve like bad fingering or so.
- when you can play the first bar, analyze the second. Typically, the rhythmic differences between bars are not so huge, so this should be faster.
- and so on. Any time you feel you are able to finger clap the rhythm AGAINST A STEADY PULSE, you can try to play in on the bass.
- learn in SLOWER TEMPO. Playing slower is usually harder than playing fast, because all the imperfections are hearable. It's not a shame to practise slow, it's a privilege. When you feel you can do it, alter the tempo. To really learn a rhythm, play it in many tempos.
I think this method was carefully studied by Dave Weckl, and he called the idea Rhythmic microscope. Perhaps there are youtube videos to that effect.
I just try to find a recording of the piece and listen to the part relentlessly.
10, 20 times in a row, if necessary. When I memorize it, and I can sing it without the recording, I can play it.
10, 20 times in a row, if necessary. When I memorize it, and I can sing it without the recording, I can play it.
Subdivide into the smallest unit shown, count from there. Smallest in that example is 32nds right? The way I would do it is “1 e & a 1 e &a 2 e & a 2 e & a” etc etc.
And remember, fast stuff is just slow stuff, played faster. No big deal. Have fun! Best of luck!
And remember, fast stuff is just slow stuff, played faster. No big deal. Have fun! Best of luck!
Start by marking the beats with visible but not too heavy perpendicular lines above or below to create 4 blocks of notes/rests per bar. If necessary mark 1/2 beats with smaller lines. See if the first of the paired notes is on the beat or is a very late up beat. Start slowly away from the bass by perhaps tapping the beats very slowly with your foot and clapping the note placements with your hands, beat by beat, bar by bar. Are there bars with identical subdivisions? When you are ready try then just as slowly with the bass and bow, tapping your foot on the beat (or half beat). At this point plan your bowings so that you might play very short up beats with up bows and aim for arriving ondown bows at critical places. If you are lucky a previous player has already marked in the beats and bowings. If you are the principal and are marking bowings into a virgin orchestral part then consult with the principal cello. If you are not the principal bass then hope to hell that he knows what he is doing.
I don't normally condone foot tapping except in cases like this. Like elberon, more information needed, please.
I don't normally condone foot tapping except in cases like this. Like elberon, more information needed, please.
You might find it easier to make sense of the rhythm by writing it out again and replacing those demi-semiquavers with acciaccatura. Start just by playing the primary notes then add the grace notes later.
My first move would be to determine where beats 1-4 (quarter notes) occur relative to the attacks. It’s likely a really slow tempo and conducted in a divided 4 (more like 8). I might even re-notate it using longer sustained note values rather than all those rests so I could relate the attacks to the beat more easily.
The piece is really poorly written: the rhythm is very badly displayed (dotted values that go over the middle of the bar; dotted 16th rest followed by a 32th rest, instead of simply writting a 8th rest; etc ...); its all natural notes, so why put a key signature with 3 sharps?
Is that good music? I sincerely doubt it?
Is that good music? I sincerely doubt it?
Not my place to judge, so I'll put it this way- sometimes when I live-type music on my midi-keyboard to a metronome using quantization, it can come out looking like this. Whenever that's the case, I'll try and play more tight 
No, but seriously- what is it?
Best
Sidecar
No, but seriously- what is it?
Best
Sidecar
I suspect this is slow.
Think and count in 8.
Mark a pencil line above each of the 8 beats.
Count it all through slowly. Clap and sing it.
The patterns will stand out.
You may be in time with cello or bassoon & others so a peek at the score can help.
Think and count in 8.
Mark a pencil line above each of the 8 beats.
Count it all through slowly. Clap and sing it.
The patterns will stand out.
You may be in time with cello or bassoon & others so a peek at the score can help.
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This ^^^ makes kind of sense.
But what the heck was the thing you have shown on your 1st post? It was typeset by an idiot or a sadist. Proper beaming is essential for the clarity of rhythm! Furthermore, there are discrepancies between the original sheet and the mess you showed in the 1st post.
To detail further my point, here is the original text, with the beats (quarter notes) marked: one notices that it consists mostly of notes falling on quarter notes and 8th notes, together with grace notes notated as 32th notes. Nothing really difficult: to play this, one simply needs to play a rhythm based on 8th notes (played short = 16th notes), ommitting the grace notes; once this is OK, one just needs to add the grace notes.
By contrast, the text first posted by the OP is full of typesetting and copy mistakes, making it very awkward (or even impossible) to play. In particular, using beaming and tying rules correctly is essential in order to clearly and rapidly identify the location of the beats within the bar.
The conclusion is:
Inkor ect tip e setInG @nD sPeLlIng ... makes the reading of simple things very difficult!
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Listen to this (the basses are clearly heared); it is rhythmically quite straightforward. What makes it somehow challenging to sight read is that the notes are written as 16th with 16th rests. If it was notated as quarter and 8th notes it would very be easy to read...
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Yeah Papageno, your markup is great on the title page. I hate it when composers notate a simple rhythmic passage in such a fussy obscured way. Why not just use longer note values with staccato marks? The attacks are mainly on strong beats.
One thing I'd disagree with you about is that I think the 32nd note pickups are measured (in time) and not grace notes. Grace notes should be printed much smaller and slurred into a "normal" note with a slash through the stem and flag right?
One thing I'd disagree with you about is that I think the 32nd note pickups are measured (in time) and not grace notes. Grace notes should be printed much smaller and slurred into a "normal" note with a slash through the stem and flag right?
Yes, this is one of the cases, where accurate rhythmic notation is actually not very helpful.
Of course, you are absolutely right on this; I did not use the proper term: what I meant by "grace note" was actually that these are notes played as anachrusis (pickup note) of the note falling on the beats or on the 8th note between the beats.
