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How to proceed

VSUBass

VSUBass

Guest
May 27, 2014
87
66
Disclosures
Closures are dumb, stupid & not very smart
#1
Uber-Brief History: Started on guitar, horrible ear so learned theory to get into the game, wheelhouse is writing songs. Most learning was by tabs and occasional jams with friends who graciously "played down" to my level, learning mandolin taught me that I can read music as long as it's fairly simple rhythmically, play bass because it's the only instrument (It's an electric solid body vertical bass) I can play without my hand going numb.

My weakness, other than the ear thing--which has gotten better since I got Complete Bass By Ear which basically plays intervals sequentially--is learning and REMEMBERING songs. That is my focus right now, simply piling up songs. I'm keeping them simple & repetitive, mostly/preferably "Come Together"/"Big 10 Record" simple/repetitive vs. Constant 8th note Drone type of stuff. I do use tab books/recordings otherwise learning any single song could take weeks or even months for me

Given this skeletal background what suggestions advice do you have for learning/remembering the songs? Should I work on just 1 song until I have it down or should I do multiple songs? Any techniques or recommendations are appreciated.

Thank-you
 
#2
My advice would be, instead of learning a complete song, break it down into small sections. Depending on how complex the song is, perhaps thirty seconds to a minute at a time. When playing this becomes second nature, proceed to the next section...rinse and repeat. When you have all the sections nailed, then play the whole song through.

IMO it would be a good idea as part of your practice session to simply sit back, listen to a song and try (it may take trial and error at the start...but this is how we learn) to play along without tabs. Pick easy songs to start with. Nominate the last ten minutes of your practice session to this. Blues music might not be your "thing", but IMO it is a great genre for learning bass lines and how they fit into a song.

Hope this helps a little. :)
 
#3
Thanks for that and yes it does. Actually I dig da blues and it's not like I'm opposed to *some* 8th note stuff I just need it to be interesting (To me obviously :)). I did see a Carl Radle ebook of some of his songs with Clapton and that looks quite interesting (I know, it is tab still) because though it's obviously got the 8th groove thing going--hey it's da bassists job to connect the drums to the melody--but he seems to mix in little triplet & walking bass type riffs in various places that keeps things interesting (and possible for me to remember otherwise I space out and concoct more whacky theories about LtU&E:D) without sacrificing the groove. That's really all I meant about the 8th note bit in my OP. Thank-you.
 
#4
I kind of consider myself lucky in that when I started playing (back in the Jurassic period :smug:) there was no internet and no tabs. So I had no choice but to constantly shift the stylus of the record player back and fourth in order to "nail" a given piece of music. Looking back on it, I realise it was worth the time and effort, as I can generally learn a song by ear fairly quickly now.

My point....tabs are like alcohol.....OK in moderation....but dont become too dependent on it. ;)
 
#5
VSUBass said:
...otherwise learning any single song could take weeks or even months for me...
Click to expand...

Then you should take weeks to really learn it. Maybe the first song will take 4 weeks, the second song will take 3 weeks, and the third song will take 2 weeks, etc. In a year's time you will be a song learning machine. And you will be REALLY learning the songs, by ear, so you will never forget them. Better to learn 1 song by ear than 10 from TAB. :)
 
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#8
Your post is a clear demonstration of why learning how to read music and learning some music theory is extremely useful. It takes so much of the guesswork out of what you're doing, and will greatly improve your ear. People are always looking for shortcuts to musical knowledge, and learning to read music and learning the theory behind how it works is the best shortcut in the world.
 
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#10
JimmyM said:
Your post is a clear demonstration of why learning how to read music and learning some music theory is extremely useful. It takes so much of the guesswork out of what you're doing, and will greatly improve your ear. People are always looking for shortcuts to musical knowledge, and learning to read music and learning the theory behind how it works is the best shortcut in the world.
Click to expand...

Thanks to everyone who has replied and I am open to more suggestions. As of now I'm proceeding kind of like fearceol recommends, i.e. including just trying to figure out songs strictly by ear for the ending portion of play sessions. I figure I can focus on learning/memorizing some easy songs like early Stones/Beatles which adds to the fun factor AND see what I can do about my mind-bogglingly inept ear...which should increase the fun overall too! :)

You're probably too busy and glossed over it but my knowledge of theory is/was a good part of how I got to be any good at all. It's almost like cheating! Yes, super-jazz heads can dance circles around me once it gets into/beyond flatted 5ths chords and such but I understand chord construction and scales and the like. As well, as I mentioned, I can read music (better in the treble due to guitar/mandolin time but I'm transitioning to the bass clef) decently if it's fairly simple rhythmically though I do get lost when there are multiple variations of hemi-demi-semi-quavers.:laugh: I can pretty much always count it out though sometimes to actually play it that count is r e a l l y slow. Like trying to learn Spirits in The Material World I have to play it so incredibly slow I can barely discern it's relation to the sounds produced by Sting. :D

Thank-you again to everyone, it's good to have Brothers. :bassist:
 
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#12
Think big picture vs. Little picture.

By that I mean learn a song in these steps.

Listen to the song.

Listen to the song and write down the form. (ex: V C V C B C C)

Listen again for the basic chord progressions of each section.combine with information from previous step.

Learn key grooves, riffs, and lines.

Combine all previously acquired information.


Believe it or not, this gets easier. Make sure you write it down though.
 
#13
Back to the original question; "Should I learn 1 song before going to another?" If you are a note by note rote player perhaps, I'm not and note by note is not important to me. Playing the song so people recognize it and like what we are doing with it is important to me. With that in mind....
Plus 1 to what Dogbertday said; listen, but, take it one more step. Try jamming to a video you have never heard before. We are an accompaniment instrument and with rhythm accompaniment and building a bass line - roots and R-5-8-5 will play a lot of bass. Listen; get a feel for the song and see what you can do.

My point while you are learning that one song I can assume some things and jam to five or six songs. I play accompaniment (providing harmony and rhythm) and leave the melody to the melody instruments; it need not be rocket science. Assume the chord progression and play notes of the active chord. Which notes? Good question; the song will dictate that. But take heart something between R-R-R-R and R-b3-5-b7 is going to work. Its accompaniment harmony and rhythm.

Listen for a moment and then see what you can do with this song. Use some of that theory you have learned to assume where the song is going, if you assumed wrong listen and then try again. It's the listening that will get you where you want to be.

Listen for specific things as Dogbertday said. Once you know the key you know the tonic, sub-dominant and dominant chords that could be used. Assume how they will be used.... and take it from there.

The lyrics will point you to the rhythm and time signature. Normally one note per lyric syllable... Four or five line verse, which one will probably be repeated and that points you to the climax of the verse and the use of the dominant chord. Let specific things help you with what is going to happen... Dogbertday pointed out the verse order and what will be repeated, that's half the battle. Knowing what comes next before you have to go there...

Jamming is great fun. But, we first have to build our confidence that we can jam and not get fish eyes from the other band members. Way to do that is to jam every chance we get.

Call up a video and get busy.
  • Find the key. If you need help with this - this is where you start. If there is a keyboard player ask them the key. Don't trust the guitards, if its in F or one of the flat keys they have used a capo and have no idea. LOL
  • Then assume what the chord progression will be. If you need help with this - this is where you start. Assume a I-IV-V-I until proven wrong. Probably a V-I cadence in every two lines of the verse. Major key - major chords are the structure chords and the minor chords add color and flavor. Right at first get the structure going, then add color and flavor next...
  • Then play notes of the active chord. Which ones? Roots to the beat, then add the five (R-5-R-5) when that flows add the eight (R-5-8-5). And when you want to add more chord tones bring in the correct 3 and 7. The 3 with major chords and the b3 with minor chords. The 7 with maj7 chords and b7 with dominant and minor sevens.
  • If you assumed wrong, listen and try again.
  • Once you have it down write it out on whatever sheet music you like. Fake chord and Nashville numbers work for me.
The main thing -- have fun.
 
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