It would appear that a few people in this thread couldn't play a fretless with a fixed bridge in tune.
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How to setup a fretless bass?
- Thread starter AudioDwebe
- Start date
Yes it is. But most people installing a Badass retrofit will simply put it where the original holes are. While that does work in a lot of cases, it's not gauranteed to work every time.
so, what would be the method of setting up a low-end fretless like the Ibanez AEB5FE? The bridge is non-adjustable, and I had to add a slight amount of relief to the neck so the higher notes would stop buzzing. I'm curious because the action isn't quite as low as I always hoped a fretless would be.
Not much, just some judicious profiling of the saddle by an experienced (good) tech, not by you unless you are said experienced (good) tech, and the usual nut/TR/action adjustments. After doing all that, a medium Sharpie® applied to the fretlines may help if the intonation, referenced to the lines, is still way off.
Failing all that, a good strong dose of chorus pedal always works wonders!
No, but I do know of a few excellent guys that are capable. I am capable, of doing a lot but not bridge/saddle work on acoustic instruments, I've just never tried doing so.
Electrics:
Max: Hey, piece of pie.
Curnow: Cake, piece of cake.
Max: Easy as cake, yes?
Curnow: Pie, easy as pie.
Electrics:
Max: Hey, piece of pie.
Curnow: Cake, piece of cake.
Max: Easy as cake, yes?
Curnow: Pie, easy as pie.
Consider this true story. A boy was given an acoustic guitar by his dad. Neither of them were musicians and neither had any experience with any instruments. The boy started playing around with it just as he was given it. Over time he got really good at playing tunes. Actually he became a very accomplished player. It wasn't until someone picked up his guitar that they realized it was completely out of tune. He had learned to play on an instrument that was not playable by a learned player. How he received the guitar was exactly how he kept it all those years. He also had problems when trying to play with others.
Intonation and a STARTING POINT for action is a must on fretted or fretless. Don't let anyone tell you different. Yes, you will adjust to your playing style and that style will change as you change as a musician (and sometimes with the weather). But the principles of a vibrating string over a given length are real. You are right to search for the answers as I am doing by coming here. When you get them, use them, be prepared to make notes and readjust them over time to develop your own.
Of course your ear will become more tweaked over time. But start right. You just have to weed out the garbage on forums and take the good.
Intonation and a STARTING POINT for action is a must on fretted or fretless. Don't let anyone tell you different. Yes, you will adjust to your playing style and that style will change as you change as a musician (and sometimes with the weather). But the principles of a vibrating string over a given length are real. You are right to search for the answers as I am doing by coming here. When you get them, use them, be prepared to make notes and readjust them over time to develop your own.
Of course your ear will become more tweaked over time. But start right. You just have to weed out the garbage on forums and take the good.
I’m not much of a fretless player, but after switching to some new strings on my fretless acoustic about 2 months ago, I’ve been playing it a lot more recently and, considering my instrument’s wack bridge, I wanted to throw my 2 cents in on this whole ‘The Great Intonation Setting Debate’ thing
So, my only fretless is an acoustic bass with a piezo pickup under a simple bar-type bridge, and it isn’t even the right bar, lol. The bridge was clearly just borrowed from a guitar as can be seen in the (painfully slow loading) thumbnail pic. Anyway, I can play it, intervals and all (well, to my satisfaction anyway
). The intonation when playing mainly depends on how in practice I am with it (I’m mainly a fretted instrument player).
I have to fall a bit on both sides of The Debate here. Yep, in my limited experience, good enough is good enough if you’re familiar with your particular instrument and you’re in practice (which includes of course using your ear). But, surely having the intonation set well would be better than having it set less well (yet alone all over the place) and it would even be fun/interesting setting it, so I definitely would if I could. Practically-wise though, yeah, I guess you could even eyeball it (I’ve done it with [fretted] guitars in a pinch and it ended up working reasonably well) and then just get used to it from there. But...I’d set it. Especially for a beginner, I’d want to ease any such frustration that could potentially contribute to killing the joy before he/she ever even really gets started. On the other hand, I’ll admit I’ve survived so far.
To the OP, I’d set it when I had the time but not obsess over getting it to "ultra perfect" or anything like that
So, my only fretless is an acoustic bass with a piezo pickup under a simple bar-type bridge, and it isn’t even the right bar, lol. The bridge was clearly just borrowed from a guitar as can be seen in the (painfully slow loading) thumbnail pic. Anyway, I can play it, intervals and all (well, to my satisfaction anyway
). The intonation when playing mainly depends on how in practice I am with it (I’m mainly a fretted instrument player).I have to fall a bit on both sides of The Debate here. Yep, in my limited experience, good enough is good enough if you’re familiar with your particular instrument and you’re in practice (which includes of course using your ear). But, surely having the intonation set well would be better than having it set less well (yet alone all over the place) and it would even be fun/interesting setting it, so I definitely would if I could. Practically-wise though, yeah, I guess you could even eyeball it (I’ve done it with [fretted] guitars in a pinch and it ended up working reasonably well) and then just get used to it from there. But...I’d set it. Especially for a beginner, I’d want to ease any such frustration that could potentially contribute to killing the joy before he/she ever even really gets started. On the other hand, I’ll admit I’ve survived so far.
To the OP, I’d set it when I had the time but not obsess over getting it to "ultra perfect" or anything like that
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FWIW, the link above doesn't work. As of 1/28/20, this one does:
Invalid Link Removed
The suggestion for setting intonation first is right on. My Warwick Thumb (Jack Bruce) almost couldn't get there. Next I used the same measurements as I did with fretted but there ain't no frets. So you're measuring from string bottom to fingerboard. Of course, the final adjustments are relief, tweaking and buzz-busting. But what do I know?
FYI, my nut is the brass type and each string adjustable.
FYI, my nut is the brass type and each string adjustable.
This guys seems to know a bit about fretless basses and how to set them up.
Relief first, height second, intonation last. The reason is that the first two affect the third, so you need to get them set before doing intonation. And intonation is crucial to me. It has to be if you play chords, octaves, or fifths on a fretless. It's important even if you don't, but it's even more critical if you do - if your finger position for a double-stop fifth is different depending on which two strings you're playing, it's pretty difficult to play them in tune consistently.
Sorry but relief and height does not increase or decrease string length (intonation). So intonatioin is celarly first.
And vid using those octave things near pickups is more about where to place pickups when building a bass (for clearest harmonics) and nothing to do with intonation per se.
Best answer is to do whatever your procedure is more than once. That's the "tweak" aspect.
And vid using those octave things near pickups is more about where to place pickups when building a bass (for clearest harmonics) and nothing to do with intonation per se.
Best answer is to do whatever your procedure is more than once. That's the "tweak" aspect.
But, they do affect string height which will affect intonation unless you play only open strings.
I may be wrong here, but I would think changing string height DOES increase/decrease string length. With higher action, you've got slightly farther to press the string to make the contact point, so if you change that height you're changing the total length of the string by stretching it farther, similar to how bending does.
Yes, when you press the string to the fingerboard or fret, the string length from that point to the saddle is different for two different saddle heights. It does affect intonation.
I agree there is a VERY minor diff. due to relief and string height but let's be real here. A set up is not a one shot deal. You do it several times. Types of strings also have diff. tensions etc so if you change you have to do it all over. I do a set up maybe 3 times, then stay with one type string.
I've built them all and still say string length is basically fixed. If anything, light touching harmonics (ie Jaco's Portrait of Tracy) will tell you much but you have to be EXACTLY on the "fret" position and unless your fingerboard is marked (and marked correctly), you're wasting time.
Fretless is a strange beast and the width of a finger is very sharp or flat regardless of the rest. Chords? Bring your lunch. Ha. But I love the sound and capabilities. So you do your best setups, use your ears and practice a lot. I think we can all agree on that.
I've built them all and still say string length is basically fixed. If anything, light touching harmonics (ie Jaco's Portrait of Tracy) will tell you much but you have to be EXACTLY on the "fret" position and unless your fingerboard is marked (and marked correctly), you're wasting time.
Fretless is a strange beast and the width of a finger is very sharp or flat regardless of the rest. Chords? Bring your lunch. Ha. But I love the sound and capabilities. So you do your best setups, use your ears and practice a lot. I think we can all agree on that.
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