How to split FX with Cab & DI

Discussion in 'Ask Justin Meldal-Johnsen' started by chechunka, Oct 10, 2011.


  1. chechunka

    chechunka Supporting Member

    Apr 18, 2009
    I apologize if you've covered this already, but I've searched the forum pretty extensively and didn't see it covered in a previous thread. So here is my question...

    I run a fairly extensive pedal board (signal chain: pog - tremelo - OD's - fuzz's - dist. - delay - mangler - delay - reverb )

    I currently have all the fx running to both my amp & clean DI (radial), but I don't care for how my dist./od's/fuzzes sound coming through the DI.

    I'm assuming that my ideal signal path would be to run my od/fuzz/dist's thru my amp/cab only and let the pog / tremelo / reverb / delay / mangler run thru BOTH the DI & amp/cab? Thus having 2 channels going into the house total. If there is a better way to split the signal please advise.

    Most of the venues I'm playing are in the 500-1000 cap. range, and most sound guys still whine if I ask them to mic & run a DI on my rig (why do they hate mic'ing bass so much anyway?).

    Is mic'ing my cab the only way I can run everything through one channel without compromising the tone of my OD's / distortion / fuzzes? I'm just wanting to achieve the best tone possible while creating as little extra work for the soundman as possible.
     
  2. vegas532

    vegas532

    Nov 10, 2006
    Pensacola, FL.
    I'd personally run the DI clean and effects thru the mic'd cabs, but that's just me. You can get great results with this set-up.

    Just my $.02. :bag:
     
  3. bongomania

    bongomania Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    Heck no! Your amp and cab are just acting as a type of EQ, to knock off the harsh highs, push the mids forward, and soften the edges a bit. You can use any pedal that does amp/cab sim like a Sansamp, or you can even just use an EQ pedal, to get close to the same result pre-DI. For example, Geddy uses a Palmer cab simulator for this purpose.
     
  4. chechunka

    chechunka Supporting Member

    Apr 18, 2009
    Ok, so I should run all my FX to a mic'd amp/cab, and then a 2nd line with all my FX into a speaker emulator (i.e. palmer) and from the speaker emulator go directly to a DI?

    In a perfect world I would want to run an additional 3rd channel with all FX going into a sansamp rbi, sansamp psa 1.1, or equivalent there of, into the board correct?

    Thanks for the help!!!
     
  5. gillento

    gillento

    Oct 15, 2005
    Luxembourg, Europe
    Nordstrand pickups
  6. tech21nyc

    tech21nyc Commercial User

    Aug 17, 2010
    Manufacturer: Tech 21
  7. chechunka

    chechunka Supporting Member

    Apr 18, 2009
    I'm wanting the DI to sound as good (subjective I know) as possible in live situations when I am only given 1 channel into the board. Does that make sense?

    I really appreciate everyone's help here. I flipping love this forum.
     
  8. chechunka

    chechunka Supporting Member

    Apr 18, 2009
    p.s. My current DI is a Radial JDI.
     
  9. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
    Red Box works great with guitar, but has too much low end rolloff to work well for bass. I'd suggest one of your Sansamp pedals over the Red Box.
     
  10. tech21nyc

    tech21nyc Commercial User

    Aug 17, 2010
    Manufacturer: Tech 21
    Good point. It has been years since I had a Red Box and at the time I only used it for guitar. The Palmer stuff is supposed to be really good although I've never personally tried it.

    Chechunka, what type of amp are you using and is the DI just a split from your bass directly? I mean the DI doesn't contain any of your amp's tone.

    Not to spam but our Bass Driver DI was originally designed to be used in parallel with a stage amp. The idea was that rather than sending just a dry bass DI tone to the board you would plug your bass into the BDDI and send an amp emulated signal instead.

    Many sound engineers don't like to mic a bass amp. In fairness since so many players use full range cabs there really isn't an easy way to mic a cab with a HF driver and crossover network. It would be like mic'ing a PA cabinet.
     
  11. jmjbassplayer

    jmjbassplayer Justin Meldal-Johnsen Gold Supporting Member

    Mar 25, 2005
    True that.
     
  12. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
    I have a word to describe sound techs who don't like to mic a bass amp...can't use it here, though ;) Always amazed me that when I'd show up with a vintage Ampeg rig and a Heil PR40 that some soundmen would still prefer to use their nasty old Whirlwind Imp 2. Fortunately, on most of my gigs, I have the clout to get what I want, and on the rare occasions that I don't, that's why I bring a VT Deluxe ;)
     
  13. chechunka

    chechunka Supporting Member

    Apr 18, 2009
    JimmyM, don't you love it when you show up with a vintage Ampeg and the first thing they ask is "So, ughh... do you have a DI?"

    Tech21nyc, I'm running a Mesa Big Block 750 into an ampeg 6x10 (w/ tweeter off). I suppose I left out a minor detail in that I am running the preamp out into my radial J48 (I posted the wrong model earlier). So I am letting my pre amp shape the tone before it hits the DI. I was originally using my head's DI, but in some venues the buzzing was ridiculous. The radial seemed to solve the buzz issue.
     
  14. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
    LOL! No, I don't love that, but I do love being able to say, "Yes, I have a DI, but I want a mic and hate DI's so that's what we're doing" ;)
     
  15. tech21nyc

    tech21nyc Commercial User

    Aug 17, 2010
    Manufacturer: Tech 21
    I'm surprised you were not able to stop the noise problem with the just the Mesa's line out as it does have a ground lift switch.

    From what I gather, since you have the tweeter off in your bass cab you have your EQ set to sound good through that particular speaker configuration. Distortion creates much more upper harmonic information than your typical clean tone. When you go through a full range cab that works against a really distorted sound unless you have enough EQ power in the distortion device or amp to dial out that annoying "sizzle" or "fizz." Mic'ing your bass cab would be the easiest and most cost effective solution. Your bass amp is a "system". Preamp, power amp and cab. By taking the line out of the preamp to the PA you are now going through a full range speaker system which I suspect you don't like since you have the horn turned off on your bass cab.

    If they unwilling to mic your cab, my suggestion would be to set your amp's line out to "pre" and use something like our Bass Driver or a similar product that will get you the sound of mic'd amplifier to the board. You could also put a speaker sim type of product between your "post" EQ and the board.
     
  16. chechunka

    chechunka Supporting Member

    Apr 18, 2009
    Thanks so much for all the help! I greatly appreciate it.
     
  17. MikeSchuppan

    MikeSchuppan

    Feb 2, 2009
    Hi Guys

    It's been a while since I've been on here but I'd like to offer my 2 cents as well.

    There are many great suggestions here. Personally I like the way the Palmer stuff sounds.

    There are two units that I would suggest.

    The PGA04 speaker simulator and the PGA05.

    The PGA04 is the speaker simulator that is well known. The benefit from this is that you get to "capture" your amps tone as well as your effects.

    The PGA05 is not a speaker simulator. It is an active DI that allows you to send a "speaker'd sound" to the FOH.
     
  18. chechunka

    chechunka Supporting Member

    Apr 18, 2009
    Nice, what are the pro's & con's between the PGA-04 and the PDI-03?
     
  19. tech21nyc

    tech21nyc Commercial User

    Aug 17, 2010
    Manufacturer: Tech 21
    I think those units are designed more for tube amps so you might want to check with both Palmer and Mesa to see if they are compatible. Also if I read correctly, the load is rated at 120 watts without a cab and 200 watts with a cab.

    It seems like their PDI-09 should work with either the slave out or effects send of your amp.
     
  20. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
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