How would I go about copying a cab?

[Fynn]

I've been looking for an old Ampeg pr410h, and haven't had any real luck. Most of these don't exist near where I live, and those that do, are usually horribly overpriced for the condition that they're in.
So now I thought about just making my own based on the design of one of those.
I understand that finding the correct speakers, or even the identical ones, could be near impossible.
I've seen some posts where people do this sort of stuff, with old style 810s or such, but I have never really taken any time to look at how you should go about something like this.

Generally speaking, what do I have to consider, is this something that would be worth pursuing, and how accurate do you think I could get with modern materials?
I know that those cabs are horribly heavy, and I wouldn't mind if my copy would be heavy.

Any help would be appreciated, whether specifics about the pr410h, or just general guidance!

 

[Wasnex]

IMHO it's not worth doing, unless you just dig building stuff. You're unlikely to save money after you pay for the proper drivers, wood, construction materials, wire, jacks, etc. Are proper drivers even available?

Without correct drivers, the cab will not have the same frequency response contour.

The cab is designed/tuned to work with the driver's specific Thiele Small (T/S) parameters. Different drivers will not have the same T/S parameters. Changing drivers generally requires the cab tuning to be adjusted. Meaning you might need to adjust the internal volume and/or port dimensions.

 

[Fynn]

IMHO it's not worth doing, unless you just dig building stuff. You're unlikely to save money after you pay for the proper drivers, wood, construction materials, wire, jacks, etc. Are proper drivers even available?

Without correct drivers, the cab will not have the same frequency response contour.

The cab is designed/tuned to work with the driver's specific Thiele Small (T/S) parameters. Different drivers will not have the same T/S parameters. Changing drivers generally requires the cab tuning to be adjusted. Meaning you might need to adjust the internal volume and/or port dimensions.

I do like building stuff, but I don't like wasting money.
Problem is also that I haven't found any specifics in terms of what drivers were used and dimensions and so on. The pr410h seems to be quite an obscure cab.

 

[Piper Bob]

Assuming you have the tools and the skills to build a cabinet, by far the best approach is to find the drivers you will use, and then make a cabinet of the correct size for the drivers. There are free programs online that will give you the volume and porting based on the speaker's parameters.

 

[Wasnex]

I've been looking for an old Ampeg pr410h

Why do want this specific cab?

 

[Fynn]

Why do want this specific cab?

Heard a lot of good stuff. Supposedly it's not like the typical Ampeg cabs.
Les Claypool used them for stage monitoring for a long time before switching to the mesa subway stuff. Recently I saw a video of him using one of those for a small gig.
Read a lot of good stuff about them, except for the fact that they're heavy.
In a way it's really just curiosity, which is why I was looking online to buy one, but it really seems near impossible to get one.

I fear this might be a waste of time, and or money, but that's why I'm asking. Perhaps somebody knows something that would help.

 

[Wasnex]

In a way it's really just curiosity, which is why I was looking online to buy one, but it really seems near impossible to get one.

The drivers are most likely built specifically for Ampeg. It's possible the same drivers were used in other Ampeg cabs, but they may have been specific to this model.

I would think the only way to satisfy your curiosity would be to play the real deal. I suggest using advanced Google search so you can limit results to Germany. Also do separate searches for Ampeg with "PR410H" and "Pro 410H"

You can also limit the searches to something like previous month.

I assume you are already searching Ebay.de and also searched Kleinezeigen.de Pretty sure there was at least one other website I used to search for music gear?

 

[Redbrangus]

To copy the cab, you'd have to be able to source the speakers. And you can't really, other than buying one of the horribly overpriced used ones. So it's practically not doable -- and honestly, it probably wouldn't be worth it. Without having actually played one, you're chasing an illusion of a mirage of a dream cab. Also, I reckon Les Claypool started playing on something else for a reason.

 

[Fynn]

The drivers are most likely built specifically for Ampeg. It's possible the same drivers were used in other Ampeg cabs, but they may have been specific to this model.

I would think the only way to satisfy your curiosity would be to play the real deal. I suggest using advanced Google search so you can limit results to Germany. Also do separate searches for Ampeg with "PR410H" and "Pro 410H"

You can also limit the searches to something like previous month.

I assume you are already searching Ebay.de and also searched Kleinezeigen.de Pretty sure there was at least one other website I used to search for music gear?

The best one I found was about a year ago from Poland for roughly 500 on reverb. I wouldn't mind paying 500€ now, but at the time I didn't think it was a good deal. Now I feel like any chance to get one would be a good deal haha
I might just be a bit too impatient. I'll definitely keep my eyes peeled!
I'm generally not someone who likes to buy used stuff, but there's no way around it in this case. And cabs are simple technology. Even if I bought one with bad wiring or such, I feel like it would be an easy fix. Just gotta make sure the drivers are fine I guess.

 

[Fynn]

To copy the cab, you'd have to be able to source the speakers. And you can't really, other than buying one of the horribly overpriced used ones. So it's practically not doable -- and honestly, it probably wouldn't be worth it. Without having actually played one, you're chasing an illusion of a mirage of a dream cab. Also, I reckon Les Claypool started playing on something else for a reason.

Yeah, you're probably right.
I'm a huge les claypool fan, but I do not always like his tone and what he does with it. I would assume a huge part of the reason why he switched was the weight.

I don't mind chasing a dream like that, even if there's a pretty high chance of disappointment. Rather that than not trying at all

 

[agedhorse]

Yeah, you're probably right.
I'm a huge les claypool fan, but I do not always like his tone and what he does with it. I would assume a huge part of the reason why he switched was the weight.

I don't mind chasing a dream like that, even if there's a pretty high chance of disappointment. Rather that than not trying at all

He switched because he was looking for a different tone for a couple of his later projects. He’s been using the Subway gear for 7 or 8 years with those side projects. Weight wasn’t a big deal for his needs.

 

[Fynn]

He switched because he was looking for a different tone for a couple of his later projects. He’s been using the Subway gear for 7 or 8 years with those side projects. Weight wasn’t a big deal for his needs.

This is a bit off topic, but I think I've seen a video yesterday where he had a 215 on stage behind him. Might've been the angle, I couldn't really see enough, but the speaker in the enclosure looked way bigger, than the 112 or 212.

 

[PeaveyPlayer]

I love those ampeg PR410H
rear ported?
I used to have one to bad they were 8 ohm

 

[PeaveyPlayer]

And if you wanna build look at the fearful bass cab builds

 

[agedhorse]

This is a bit off topic, but I think I've seen a video yesterday where he had a 215 on stage behind him. Might've been the angle, I couldn't really see enough, but the speaker in the enclosure looked way bigger, than the 112 or 212.

He may be using a mix of 12’s and 15’s now, I haven’t heard of recent updates to his rig. It is likely however.

 

[ardgedee]

Yeah, you're probably right.
I'm a huge les claypool fan, but I do not always like his tone and what he does with it. I would assume a huge part of the reason why he switched was the weight.

Claypool has roadies and technicians. He's one of the few working musicians who don't have to think about his equipment's weight.

 

[DrummerwStrings]

To copy the cab, you'd have to be able to source the speakers. And you can't really, other than buying one of the horribly overpriced used ones. So it's practically not doable -- and honestly, it probably wouldn't be worth it. Without having actually played one, you're chasing an illusion of a mirage of a dream cab. Also, I reckon Les Claypool started playing on something else for a reason.

Another possibility is search for a software sim of the cab. Someone might have modeled an Ampeg PR410H using an amp modeler/profiler like a Kemper Profiler or Fractal Audio AxeFX, or there may be a VST plugin for a DAW recording program. Can also ask Ampeg if they have a (pre)amp with a PR410H cab sim, or if they allowed another company to sim the cab.

A model won’t sound exactly like a rig w an Ampeg PR410H cab, but you will be able to decide whether you want to continue to look for one that’s for sale.

 

[baxter_x]

Any help would be appreciated, whether specifics about the pr410h, or just general guidance

Get a cab with the same design. Ported with a tweeter and you'll be fine.

 

[DaveParker39]

I don't think building one is the best route in this particular situation.

If you were trying to do it to learn, as a project to see if you could, etc., then sure, but I'm not sure you will "save" anything if all you are trying to do is get your hands on that particular cab. Projects are awesome and fun but in cases like this they usually cost more money than buying the thing and take more effort.

 

[JohnnyChatter]

I’ve owned that cab a few times. I’ve even played through a stack of them. It’s a great cab but these days you can get better and won’t break your back. I’m a pretty big dude that stays fit. I wouldn’t ever think about hauling that cab around ever again. I even still haul my all tube bass heads around but that cab is a hard no. It’s shaped super awkward also so you’ll need a hatchback or a van.

You are talking about the painted black no tolex front bottom ported 4 ohm cab right? It is a sweet cab. Tim Commerford is a huge fan of that specific cab. What brands of cabs are available to you in Germany?