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How would I go about copying a cab?

#21
JohnnyChatter said:
I’ve owned that cab a few times. I’ve even played through a stack of them. It’s a great cab but these days you can get better and won’t break your back. I’m a pretty big dude that stays fit. I wouldn’t ever think about hauling that cab around ever again. I even still haul my all tube bass heads around but that cab is a hard no. It’s shaped super awkward also so you’ll need a hatchback or a van.

You are talking about the painted black no tolex front bottom ported 4 ohm cab right? It is a sweet cab. Tim Commerford is a huge fan of that specific cab. What brands of cabs are available to you in Germany?
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I'm talking about the pr410h, which from what I could tell only has ports on the rear. It's smaller, than the one you're talking about. I think the one you're talking about is the pr410hlf!

We got all kinds of stuff here, but some things are just a bit too obscure. You can get all kinds of old Ampeg heads and cabs, but those pr cabs are extra elusive.
I guess they never sold that many of them, at least not here.

There is also the option of getting a new pn410 here for 800€, which honestly seems like a steal, but I don't think that really sounds anything like those older pr410 cabs.
 
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#23
agedhorse said:
You might also ask yourself why that model is not available and not popular compared with their other models…
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I would assume weight is a huge factor. Also the fact that it doesn't really sound like a typical ampeg cab. Most people that buy ampeg stuff, want the classic ampeg tone. If the cab doesn't give that, then it's a hard sell probably.
Of course there's also the chance that it just sucks, but honestly, I'm not sure I've ever read anything negative about those cabs, except for when people talk about the weight. So, who knows.
 
#24
Fynn said:
I'm talking about the pr410h, which from what I could tell only has ports on the rear. It's smaller, than the one you're talking about. I think the one you're talking about is the pr410hlf!

We got all kinds of stuff here, but some things are just a bit too obscure. You can get all kinds of old Ampeg heads and cabs, but those pr cabs are extra elusive.
I guess they never sold that many of them, at least not here.

There is also the option of getting a new pn410 here for 800€, which honestly seems like a steal, but I don't think that really sounds anything like those older pr410 cabs.
Click to expand...
Ah. I know what cab you’re speaking of. I agree it doesn’t sound like a typical Ampeg. It has a more detailed tone. Would I make it my mission to find one. Na. They are still a bear to move and you can get better tone with a lot less weight. I used to see them for 200-400 bucks a few years ago all the time and they still show up occasionally for 300. I dont think looking for that tone is a bad thing. It’s just not worth your time for that cab unless you’re looking for a project that doesn’t really benefit you. There is nothing wrong with that by the way. I’m rebuilding a Kustom 3x15 now that I know is gonna live in my basement. Those cabs came from the era where big and heavy was cool and standard. I Personally don’t prefer 80% of neo cabs but my Mesa, Bergs, and Schroeder cabs all slam that same way those older cabs do and I know they aren’t abused by people before me. Those cabs tended to get pushed pretty hard by dudes who cared more about rocking than their equipment. If you ever make it to Colorado we can go pick one up and you can try it against a few of my cabs.
 
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#25
Early on you pointed out you had not played/used the cabinet and were curious how it sounded. You won't satisfy that curiosity any way other than playing one. And even with an older model, you won't be certain the cabinet is fatigued or had repair that did not bring it back to specification. If you don't mind heavy and want inexpensive, stick to what's locally convenient. You'll probably get a chance to try it before purchase, though that does not tell you everything. You can purchase, use it in your application. If it's not what you want, sell and replace.

Per building, in the day I built many TL606s. My brother gave back to me a pair I built for him in 1978. In 2019 I took them out for a show with a BB800 and they sounded great. It was not a loud gig, so I didn't have to worry about smoking the EVM15LIIs. In 2019 I had ideas of building a fEARful 15/6/1 until one appeared in local adds for less than the speakers and crossover would have cost,... and it was professionally built (LDS).

Good luck.
 
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#26
Why go through the effort and expense copying something you haven’t even heard to determine if it suits your taste? If you don’t care for it, you will then discover how little value it has and how difficult it will be to sell.

Since you can’t obtain the original drivers, you can’t even duplicate the tone of the original cabinet anyway.
 
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#30
To the OP -

If you’ve never built a cab, just build one.

You’ll learn a thing or two. Tons of info on TB for where to start - Go from there. You don’t have to use fancy drivers or materials. Some quick plug and chug math will give you design parameters and you’ll learn a lot of what you’re asking here in a practical sense.

If you enjoy the journey, then work on knockoffs.

Straight to knockoff is a little ambitious especially if you’re asking for plans and don’t already have them. Marshall cabs are well documented but I don’t know the same exists for Ampeg, for example.

Lastly, chasing Les’ tone is an ambitious journey I personally think it’s in his hands. Seen him front row many times and you just don’t walk up and throw down like that on a rig. He literally has the Happy Gilmore golf swing of slap/pop, full arm extensions and all. Lol
 
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#31
meisi said:
To the OP -

If you’ve never built a cab, just build one.

You’ll learn a thing or two. Tons of info on TB for where to start - Go from there. You don’t have to use fancy drivers or materials. Some quick plug and chug math will give you design parameters and you’ll learn a lot of what you’re asking here in a practical sense.

If you enjoy the journey, then work on knockoffs.

Straight to knockoff is a little ambitious especially if you’re asking for plans and don’t already have them. Marshall cabs are well documented but I don’t know the same exists for Ampeg, for example.

Lastly, chasing Les’ tone is an ambitious journey I personally think it’s in his hands. Seen him front row many times and you just don’t walk up and throw down like that on a rig. He literally has the Happy Gilmore golf swing of slap/pop, full arm extensions and all. Lol
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I'm not exactly trying to copy Les tone, more chasing what I've heard before and what is familiar to me.

I guess it's a good idea to just build one. Though I would assume there's lots of info on something like an svt410hlf. Either way, I gotta do research of course.

A lot of people say it's in his hand, but I am able to differentiate what he is doing, to what the tone is doing. Especially since he varies a lot in his play style, and you can get many glimpses of his tone with let's say more tame finger picking and even some palm muted thumb playing.
I personally I really love the tone he had during the early 2010s, where he started using the first pachyderm basses. And the early 2000s, where he was still using the CT with the normal EMG 35DC and started switching his rig from the ADA preamp and the mesa stuff to other effects and amps. Though that tone is very thin, and probably shouldn't be used in a normal band setting!
 
#32
Fynn said:
I'm not exactly trying to copy Les tone, more chasing what I've heard before and what is familiar to me.

I guess it's a good idea to just build one. Though I would assume there's lots of info on something like an svt410hlf. Either way, I gotta do research of course.

A lot of people say it's in his hand, but I am able to differentiate what he is doing, to what the tone is doing. Especially since he varies a lot in his play style, and you can get many glimpses of his tone with let's say more tame finger picking and even some palm muted thumb playing.
I personally I really love the tone he had during the early 2010s, where he started using the first pachyderm basses. And the early 2000s, where he was still using the CT with the normal EMG 35DC and started switching his rig from the ADA preamp and the mesa stuff to other effects and amps. Though that tone is very thin, and probably shouldn't be used in a normal band setting!
Click to expand...
Adding to that though, I understand it's sort of irretional to chase the way a cab sounds, that I've only ever really heard through busy mixes, and often through bad mobile phone footage.
My rational, as it often is, is that I just like to do and try stuff. But yes, it would probably make the most sense to just start with something less ambititous and learn a bit.
 
#34
Fynn said:
I've been looking for an old Ampeg pr410h, and haven't had any real luck. Most of these don't exist near where I live, and those that do, are usually horribly overpriced for the condition that they're in.
So now I thought about just making my own based on the design of one of those.
I understand that finding the correct speakers, or even the identical ones, could be near impossible.
I've seen some posts where people do this sort of stuff, with old style 810s or such, but I have never really taken any time to look at how you should go about something like this.

Generally speaking, what do I have to consider, is this something that would be worth pursuing, and how accurate do you think I could get with modern materials?
I know that those cabs are horribly heavy, and I wouldn't mind if my copy would be heavy.

Any help would be appreciated, whether specifics about the pr410h, or just general guidance!
Click to expand...

Three are available right now on Reverb: https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=Ampeg pr410h
 
#35
Fynn said:
Adding to that though, I understand it's sort of irretional to chase the way a cab sounds, that I've only ever really heard through busy mixes, and often through bad mobile phone footage.
My rational, as it often is, is that I just like to do and try stuff. But yes, it would probably make the most sense to just start with something less ambititous and learn a bit.
Click to expand...
If he used these cabs live during late 90s and early 00s, my tone memory of it was exactly the same and identifiable in the mix with primus as it was with frogs, oysterhead and bucket head.

Whatever he was using he always sounded exactly like Les. Some of the venues I was hearing through the board but others it was small venue front row stage volume right in my face. OD grit may have changed band to band but still very much sounded like Les.

Have fun building a cab!
 
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