How would one integrate synthesizers into their music?

[monsterthompson]

Maschine : Production Systems : Maschine | Products

Kiss your free time goodbye.

 

[Juststanley]

"This" one wouldn't !

 

[eb0248]

One thing to keep in mind about synthesizers is that they can easily fill up the entire sonic spectrum, so you have to be careful to leave room for other instruments (assuming you are going to be adding guitars and whatnot). You might find a rip-roaring synth tone that sounds awesome and fat, but then find you can't get it to mix well with other instrumentation.

+1 As a synth player first and have been dorking around with string instruments for a few years, the key is to enhance, not overpower the sound. Can be tricky, as it is very easy to do...

 

[CryingBass]

I agree with ImNotJoel, pads are a nice way to start out and test the waters, so to speak. You can use them to flesh out chords to complement the guitar, or even have them be the only chordal instrument while the guitar gets to do other things.

Then you can maybe add a synth hook or two, but be careful not to have synth and guitar step all over themselves, or maybe try some lines that guitar and synth play in union, or maybe do the same with bass and synth an octave apart from each other while the guitar plays higher notes. Having bass and synth in the same octave can be problematic, however. The key is to always leave space so the instruments don't sound like they're fighting each other.

The rotating solo thing that RTF, Mahavishnu Orchestra, the Flock, etc. did often can help too with the mix. As long as your not the dude at the faders!

 

[chungweishan]

The more important aspect is your ability to come up with melodies, counter-melodies, harmonies, and background sound effects/scapes, than worry about integrating a synth. For most part, it's just another instrument that's usually shaped like a keyboard. Or looks like a multi-pad drum machine. Or a touchpad.

Let's say I composed a song with the standard drums, bass, and guitar. I might want to add another totally different sounding instrument. Luckily, I play keyboard, so I might futz around with a whole bunch of different sounds until I feel like it adds to the song. Then I'll compose a keyboard/synth part.

Or vice versa, I'll come up with a simple keyboard/synth melody and have the rest of the instruments support it (guitar chords, bass lines, drum parts).

Or replace bass, guitar, and/or drums with a synth-sound to have a totally different effect on the song.

It's just a conscious effort to hear something that I wouldn't usually do, or what certain audiences expects.

I'm glad the technology is there to do it, so I'm no longer limited to what soundscapes/songs I want to make. Thrash metal with an 8-bit Nintendo tones. Salsa music with a French horn. Country music with a Moog. Rockabilly with a full orchestra.

 

[Alkali Ike]

In a "real" band, one wouldn't.

I'M KIDDING!

 

[socialleper]

If it takes talent to operate it and it makes noise it's a real instrument.

If you just push play on a drum machine and let it roll, then I'd agree with your philosophy.
But drum machines are becoming more advanced and theres a new breed of drum machinist emerging.
A person who might program a basic beat live in the first few seconds of a song, but then goes on to manipulate the rhythm with sound filters and stutters and effects and alters the beat live without anything being pre programmed.

It's kind of like when DJs stopped simply letting records play and then started scratching and switching and combining tracks from different songs.

I don't know about you, but that is something I can respect and would be down to jamming with.

Its not though. Its a electronic device making electronic noises for electronic music. That's what I'd call a hat trick. Am I human and want to hear a human interact with an instrument with human emotions conveyed through that instrument. I also can't think of anything more boring that watching someone dicker around with a synth or drum machine on stage.
There isn't a single thing a DJ does that I like, so that's really not a good argument for me. At best they are audio engineers, not musicians.

Those are just my feelings on the subject.

 

[DonaldR]

Have a look at EXH Mel9. If you have an octaver you can play with your bass otherwise might be better with a guitar.

 

[ofajen]

Over 30 years ago, I got Devarahi's "The Complete Guide to Synthesizers" based on the recommendation of my electronic music prof. It's mostly about classic subtractive analog synthesis, but was good on that topic. Sadly I can't find my copy any more, though I do have the Roland synthesis books from that same era and they are good too.

Several key synthesis technologies have emerged since: frequency modulation (FM), physical modeling (PM), and wavetable among those. Also, sampling was just emerging at the time.

I started doing electronic music stand synthesis first, so I undertook the opposite endeavor, incorporating electric and acoustic instruments into my productions.

I still use the Roland poly and mono synths I got back then. You might like to have a synth like that with real controls to play with, or maybe one of the new simulated analogs to start with. Reason being subtractive synthesis is relatively straightforward to tinker with and the results are fairly predictable. FM and PM tend to be much more dense and complex to understand and to predict the effects of changes.

BTW, there are a lot of fun synthesis apps you can get for an iPad or iPhone. You could try those out and start to get a feel for the types of sounds you want to use. Some of my favorites are Animoog, Magellan and Addictive. Filtatron is a cool looping and processing app and FunkBox is a whole lot of old analog groove boxes in one app.

Otto

 

[Nev375]

Of course, there was a time when the electric bass was looked down on and not considered a real instrument by "professional" musicians.

...just sayin'

 

[funkymonk13]

Of course, there was a time when the electric bass was looked down on and not considered a real instrument by "professional" musicians.

...just sayin'

I used to have that mentality when it came to electronic music. My reasoning was that i hated the textures of the sounds and that these devices do more of the work for you(and therefore require less "talent").

Now over the past few years of meeting some really talented musicians whom i respect my thinking has changed a lot. I think part of being an artist is keeping an open mind and learning to use whatever tools you have available to create something new and exciting.
I still love traditional instruments because they seem to be more intimate to me; theres less separation between you and the sounds coming out than compared to man and machine. But learning to program drum machines and getting good sounds out of synths are true art forms.

OP all I can really say is, experiment! mess around with synths until you learn the ins and outs, just like when you first picked up bass. and good on you for venturing out and trying something new!

 

[funkymonk13]

Its not though. Its a electronic device making electronic noises for electronic music. That's what I'd call a hat trick. Am I human and want to hear a human interact with an instrument with human emotions conveyed through that instrument. I also can't think of anything more boring that watching someone dicker around with a synth or drum machine on stage.
There isn't a single thing a DJ does that I like, so that's really not a good argument for me. At best they are audio engineers, not musicians.

Those are just my feelings on the subject.

Have you really tried it though?
Drumming isn't really tough; Ive met people who can crank out simple beats their first time sitting on a drum set. Being a good drummer is an entirely different story though. Have you actually listened to different types of electronic music? have you heard how different musicians use these machines? Have you done any of this with an open mind?

I think DJ'ing focuses on a completely different aspect of music than playing bass in a band. I've seen some really talented DJs who obviously know what they're doing. But if you go in thinking of it as a hat trick you're never going to hear anything nice from them

BTW I completely respect your right to have your own opinion and not like electronic music; and i'm def not saying you should even try to like it when its clearly not your thing. All i'm trying to say is music is subjective and thats why different genres appeal to different people, both as the audience and the artist. Its a little harsh do dismiss others as "not musicians" because they're going about things differently than you.

 

[morgansterne]

post some mp3's of your songs and let us random internet people overdub some keyboard stuff on them??

1) you'll hate it and decide you don't want any keyboards in your tunes.
2) you'll hear something cool and decide to adapt something like that.

 

[socialleper]

Have you really tried it though?
Drumming isn't really tough; Ive met people who can crank out simple beats their first time sitting on a drum set.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I suppose that might be true if you suck at drums or like stupidly simple music.







But no, I've never tried drumming. I'm a bass player, playing the drums is someone else's job.

 

[funkymonk13]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I suppose that might be true if you suck at drums or like stupidly simple music.







But no, I've never tried drumming. I'm a bass player, playing the drums is someone else's job.

Wow...i think you completely missed the point of everything I wrote.
Your views and philosophy on music are...interesting

 

[Real Soon]

With a little study to start, then the world opens up surprisingly easily and quickly! In most cases, you can break synthesis down into individual components, which is how they were originally designed; the all-in-one synths are basically hardwired or software-controlled versions of those classic modular synthesizers, when you're talking classic analog style.

An analog or analog-modeling synthesizer starts with an oscillator, which is your basic waveform/sound generator. Add an envelope to control the oscillator's behavior, and a filter to slice into the sound and give it more useful, pleasant characteristics, and fun things like an LFO (low-frequency oscillator--think vibrato or other slower back & forth motions), S&H (sample & hold, a fun "grab-and-release" sound that's just cool and often weird), and ways to trigger and control it (keyboard, mod wheel, sequencer, etc), and you've got some really beast soundmaking capabilities already.

Newer digitally based synthesizers are ultra powerful and as complex as the latest computing technology allows them to be, but usually have many of the same controls available.


All this to say, you do NOT have to be some technology wizard to learn to understand synths, and in hardware packages, little mono-synth guys like the Korg MS-20 mini, Novation Bass Station, Arturia MicroBrute, etc give you the newly appreciated analog signals and total hands-on control. However, those don't save preset patches in banks for you, whereas comparable digital synths will. I personally own an MS-20 mini, MicroBrute, and very recently the rather amazing Korg Minilogue, as well as an Alesis Micron (crappy interface, but with patience and study, it can be conquered and it sounds awesome and is built like a tank)...and setting them up in a miniature studio setting gives infinite hours of fun. And the MicroBrute and Micron have both been gigged on and deliver all the sound you're asking about. I haven't run sequences on them, instead using them strictly to play like hands-on instruments.

 

[Nev375]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I suppose that might be true if you suck at drums or like stupidly simple music.


But no, I've never tried drumming. I'm a bass player, playing the drums is someone else's job.

I might be wrong and assuming too much about your stance on this, so forgive me if I'm way off.

But you almost seem to have the notion that there's a ceiling to using something like a drum machine as a performance tool. As in, once you know how to work it, there's really nowhere else to go with it. And the talent level required to mastering it is much lower than mastering the bass and/or real drums.

IF that is what you think, then I'd suggest that people thought the same thing about the bass. It's an easy instrument compared to guitar, piano, violin or any other "lead" type instrument. It's mostly just roots and fives or simple slow lines. But then people like Entwistle, Larry Graham, Jaco, Les Claypool, Victor Wooten and Michael Manring and others came along and completely redefined the instrument. Those people may not be in the mainstream but I don't know many musicians who'd consider what they do as easy.

The only ceiling to using a drum machine as a performance tool is the imagination of the artist using it. Just because no one has yet taken it to the heights of virtuosity as Stuart Hamm does on the bass does not mean it cannot be done. But first one has to open their mind to the possibility.

 

[socialleper]

I might be wrong and assuming too much about your stance on this, so forgive me if I'm way off.

But you almost seem to have the notion that there's a ceiling to using something like a drum machine as a performance tool. As in, once you know how to work it, there's really nowhere else to go with it. And the talent level required to mastering it is much lower than mastering the bass and/or real drums.

IF that is what you think, then I'd suggest that people thought the same thing about the bass. It's an easy instrument compared to guitar, piano, violin or any other "lead" type instrument. It's mostly just roots and fives or simple slow lines. But then people like Entwistle, Larry Graham, Jaco, Les Claypool, Victor Wooten and Michael Manring and others came along and completely redefined the instrument. Those people may not be in the mainstream but I don't know many musicians who'd consider what they do as easy.

The only ceiling to using a drum machine as a performance tool is the imagination of the artist using it. Just because no one has yet taken it to the heights of virtuosity as Stuart Hamm does on the bass does not mean it cannot be done. But first one has to open their mind to the possibility.

Anything I say won't dissuade the OP from what he wants to do, and I understand trying to argue the merits of different styles of music are pointless.

However, as a consumer, as a person that actively still buys music and goes to shows, I can tell you what I want to see. I recently played a show with one of these looper guys that has a synth, some kind of beat thing, and a bunch of instruments that he processes through loops to play. It takes forever for him to set up and tear down, and he has a massive amount of gear for one guy. What is does is interesting for maybe 5 minutes, but you can't keep the interest of a Sunset club on a Friday night with one dude looping stuff. It might work on YouTube, but its boring to watch live.
I watch late night talk shows when they have bands like the OP mentioned on. Barring their music, they are a snooze to watch. Its like watching someone have a spazz will they work on their computer. There is no excitement, nothing to watch, and it feels cold. With a guitar or drums I have to play the note and how I play it changes everything about it. With a DJ or electronics, it will sound the same every single time. I, as an audience member, can't connect emotional with a piece of equipment mechanically doing the same thing.

I'm done derailing the thread.
Sorry.

 

[Jean Rodriguez]

With a little study to start, then the world opens up surprisingly easily and quickly! In most cases, you can break synthesis down into individual components, which is how they were originally designed; the all-in-one synths are basically hardwired or software-controlled versions of those classic modular synthesizers, when you're talking classic analog style.

An analog or analog-modeling synthesizer starts with an oscillator, which is your basic waveform/sound generator. Add an envelope to control the oscillator's behavior, and a filter to slice into the sound and give it more useful, pleasant characteristics, and fun things like an LFO (low-frequency oscillator--think vibrato or other slower back & forth motions), S&H (sample & hold, a fun "grab-and-release" sound that's just cool and often weird), and ways to trigger and control it (keyboard, mod wheel, sequencer, etc), and you've got some really beast soundmaking capabilities already.

Newer digitally based synthesizers are ultra powerful and as complex as the latest computing technology allows them to be, but usually have many of the same controls available.


All this to say, you do NOT have to be some technology wizard to learn to understand synths, and in hardware packages, little mono-synth guys like the Korg MS-20 mini, Novation Bass Station, Arturia MicroBrute, etc give you the newly appreciated analog signals and total hands-on control. However, those don't save preset patches in banks for you, whereas comparable digital synths will. I personally own an MS-20 mini, MicroBrute, and very recently the rather amazing Korg Minilogue, as well as an Alesis Micron (crappy interface, but with patience and study, it can be conquered and it sounds awesome and is built like a tank)...and setting them up in a miniature studio setting gives infinite hours of fun. And the MicroBrute and Micron have both been gigged on and deliver all the sound you're asking about. I haven't run sequences on them, instead using them strictly to play like hands-on instruments.

For now, I have my MacBook Pro with Logic Pro X and a Pre Sonus Audiobox Music Creation Suite bundle. The bundle came with a keyboard and that's what I use to experiment with the synth sounds that Logic has. I have my eye on the Microbrute because it is relatively cheap and not too big. I looked at the Korg Volca, but it looks rather toy-ish and small for me.

 

[Jean Rodriguez]

Anything I say won't dissuade the OP from what he wants to do, and I understand trying to argue the merits of different styles of music are pointless.

However, as a consumer, as a person that actively still buys music and goes to shows, I can tell you what I want to see. I recently played a show with one of these looper guys that has a synth, some kind of beat thing, and a bunch of instruments that he processes through loops to play. It takes forever for him to set up and tear down, and he has a massive amount of gear for one guy. What is does is interesting for maybe 5 minutes, but you can't keep the interest of a Sunset club on a Friday night with one dude looping stuff. It might work on YouTube, but its boring to watch live.
I watch late night talk shows when they have bands like the OP mentioned on. Barring their music, they are a snooze to watch. Its like watching someone have a spazz will they work on their computer. There is no excitement, nothing to watch, and it feels cold. With a guitar or drums I have to play the note and how I play it changes everything about it. With a DJ or electronics, it will sound the same every single time. I, as an audience member, can't connect emotional with a piece of equipment mechanically doing the same thing.

I'm done derailing the thread.
Sorry.

I must say, I agree with a lot of what you say. Can you please mention some of the bands that you've seen on the talk shows (Despite having cable in my house, I watch Netflix and Hulu about 98% percent of the time). The bands which have picked my interest are Foster the People and Metric. They implement both synths and organic instruments both on stage and on recordings. I will agree that watching someone play a synth live is a bit boring because they can't exactly move around the stage or do much. All that they can do is jump while pressing the buttons. Nonetheless, the sounds that they are getting out of those weird boxes is interesting