how would you react to this?

[jmattbassplaya]

I wouldn`t care whether or not they saw a dime from it (OK, I would), but it`s really the principle of the matter that gets me. In the second to last band I was in the guitarist and I wrote a huge portion of the material together. We both moved on from that band to the last one I was in and we decided to play some of the same songs from the previous band in the new one since we wrote them. Long story short, he introduced the songs as 'his' to the new band and always got credit for them. Even though we weren`t making money on the songs it still sucked hearing our drummer announce the songs over the PA as ones the guitarist had written. It`s a really degrading feeling having others take sole credit for your work or work you had a hand in doing.

Getting back to the OP, I`d split with that dude. It`s obvious he`s using you as a stooge.

 

[GrooveWarrior]

That percentage is a lot smaller than you know. I have several friends who make a more than reasonable living on music and have raised families in comfortable suburban lives. You should open your eyes a bit and realize that music is a lot more than stars on the radio.

That's great if they can do that with some success. I guess living here in the middle of the country, that isn't as much of an option as it is on the edges. I also have to believe (for me) I would feel like I had short-changed my family if I HAVE to spend every Friday and weekends away from them to put food on the table. Just my take.

 

[St Drogo]

Dick move on his part. But I have no idea how old he is, it could really be just a young guy who sincerely looks up to you, not realizing he's being a jerkwad-douchenozzle.

If you don't want to go through the hassle of copyrighting (which you should do anyway), you could at LEAST take what you have of your own songs (recordings, notation, scribbled notes, anything), copy it, put it in a sealed envelope, mail it to yourself and not open it. That way, at least you can prove that you came up with these songs before that dude did, by way of postage stamp. But really. Get it copyrighted.

And also, have a stern talking to with the offender in question.

 

[Febs]

IANAL, but I thought that only applied to trademarks, not copyright or patents?

Correct.

keeping evidence of when you wrote it doesn't do any good. Legally, you cannot file a copyright infringement suit on a work that you have not copyrighted. It's a law written to where when you create a work of art you own the intillectual property, but you can't file suit on someone for stealing it unless you have copyrighted it.

Most of what you write here is correct, though your statement about "a work that you have not copyrighted" is not quite accurate. Under section 102 of the United States Copyright Act, copyright exists as soon as a work of authorship is "fixed in any tangible medium of expression ... from which [it] can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated ...." That means that if you write a song, copyright exists as soon as you record the song, write it down in written form or put it into any other tangible form. There are not additional steps that are necessary in order to "copyright" a work of authorship.

One can register a copyrighted work with the Register of Copyrights. Registration is not necessary for copyright to exist. However, a copyright may only be enforced in the United States district courts if registration has been made, which I believe is what you were getting at in your post.

However, your statement that "keeping evidence of when you wrote it doesn't do any good" is incorrect. In an infringement suit, evidence of when a work was authored can be probative of whether in fact the work was copied.

 

[twangman]

What I would do is ask him to invite you to the other bands practice, play the lines the right way,make sure they know where the muisc is coming from.
Back in the late 90s I had this riff stuck in my head from guitar player I was working with ,I was messing around with it before practice with the "other band,they liked it and one thing led to another, I made it a point to let them now it wasn't mine.
So I can see how these things can happen.
The question for me is, did he tell you about playing your songs before he wanted you to teach him, or after?

well.. we took a break from playing. during that break he found another band which he started playing bass for. after that, he asked me to teach him the bass lines

 

[electracoyote]

Copyright your material.

Be flattered and honored when other artists like your material and want to perform it. This will only serve as good PR and word-of-mouth when they are asked who wrote that song.

Let other musicians know that you don't mind them playing your material as long as they credit you with the authorship.

Don't get excited until money enters the picture. The moment someone is in a serious position to profit from your material (and I mean beyond the typical bar gig), you need to stand up for your cut and hire an entertainment lawyer if necessary.

I think it's very cool that other musicians in your area like your stuff enough to want to cover it. We have a few local heros from my neck of the woods who went national, and we cover their material all the time.

 

[UncleFluffy]

Tell him what your going rate is for lessons ...

 

[twangman]

thanks for the responses guys. just wanted to start off by saying im not planning to make money from playing, i play because i love it
i dont think it will get too serious with the copyrighting and all that, it is just the principal of the thing. i was a flattered at first, but to actually sing my lyrics and attempt to do the bass parts with another band was kinda sketchy, especially after him telling me he is the "weakest member" of his band, but they really liked that song and they too wanted to learn the song. it was all news to me even the fact he was in another band, because we took a break from playing, in that time he joined that other band. i dont know the band, have not met them or anything like that.

 

[MegaSwing]

just wanted to start off by saying im not planning to make money from playing, i play because i love it

Please don't repeat this within earshot of anyone who can pay you money.

 

[twangman]

Dick move on his part. But I have no idea how old he is, it could really be just a young guy who sincerely looks up to you, not realizing he's being a jerkwad-douchenozzle.

If you don't want to go through the hassle of copyrighting (which you should do anyway), you could at LEAST take what you have of your own songs (recordings, notation, scribbled notes, anything), copy it, put it in a sealed envelope, mail it to yourself and not open it. That way, at least you can prove that you came up with these songs before that dude did, by way of postage stamp. But really. Get it copyrighted.

And also, have a stern talking to with the offender in question.

yea, hes older than me. by almost 20 years

 

[twangman]

Please don't repeat this within earshot of anyone who can pay you money.

hahaha, i know, i mean... if i did ever get paid, im not gonna refuse it or anything. i could use some more cup noodles

 

[AnchorHoy]

If you don't want to go through the hassle of copyrighting (which you should do anyway), you could at LEAST take what you have of your own songs (recordings, notation, scribbled notes, anything), copy it, put it in a sealed envelope, mail it to yourself and not open it. That way, at least you can prove that you came up with these songs before that dude did, by way of postage stamp

Absolutely useless, because it won't hold up in court. The LOC addresses this specifically in their Copyright FAQ

Do I have to register with your office to be protected?

No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration.”

Why should I register my work if copyright protection is automatic?

Registration is recommended for a number of reasons. Many choose to register their works because they wish to have the facts of their copyright on the public record and have a certificate of registration. Registered works may be eligible for statutory damages and attorney's fees in successful litigation. Finally, if registration occurs within 5 years of publication, it is considered prima facie evidence in a court of law

I’ve heard about a “poor man’s copyright.” What is it?

The practice of sending a copy of your own work to yourself is sometimes called a “poor man’s copyright.” There is no provision in the copyright law regarding any such type of protection, and it is not a substitute for registration

Source

Bottom Line:

If you value your work enough to worry about someone else claiming credit (and/or money from royalties) for it, then spend the $ in order to be in a position to defend your own claim to it. Unpublished works that are registered online run $35 apiece these days. If money's really tight, then you can always register a large group of your best stuff together as a Collection, for that same $35

 

[txbasschik]

... and that's why I got a college education, a masters degree, and a good job with benefits instead of chasing the musical dream. I like a steady paycheck. If you are counting on music to support your family, you are being incredibly irresponsible. For 99.99% of us, music is (and should be) an enjoyable hobby.

Well, GOOD fer YEWWWWWW!!! :scowl: Has anyone ever stolen from you?

Doesn't matter whether OP makes a dime off those songs or not. A thief is a thief, and Mr. Teach Me Your Style is a thief. Doesn't matter if someone steals a garden hoe from my back yard, or all the money we have, or my best song. They stole. They'll steal again. A thief is always a thief. Someone who steals *anything* can *never* be trusted.

Cherie

 

[Jim Campbell]

I guess I just refuse to believe that people have only one gift or option in life. There are times we have all had to drop back and punt. Sometimes punting is the best option.

I didn't say I really had any success. I've just enjoyed playing music when and where I can. At this stage of my life, that usually means at church, or an occasional gig when we can all get it together.

some people start off with no options at all.....

out in suburbia there are lots of big new churches with big multi acre parking lots,filled with nice new cars,and a lot of people who forgot where jesus spent most of his life.....

 

[gregoire1]

Wow, I was leaning toward GroveWarrior, but when you said the guy was 20 years older than you, then he must be at least 26, old enough to know better, and it sounds like he was wanting to try to use your material for his other band! That is stealing. In my opinion, "intent" is everything.

 

[MrTAteMyBalls]

You've got it all wrong. You can't file a copyright, period. You can't apply for it. As soon as you create a piece of art, you have the copyrights! And you WILL retain those copyrights, unless you SELL them, until you are dead for 70 years. The problem is PROVING that you have them, and enforcing their protection. Naturally you can't "file suit on someone ... unless you have copyrighted it." Because you can't sue someone unless you can prove that you are the true creator of the art.

Anyway, IMO, someone who wants to steal your music and make money off of it without right isn't going to ask you to teach it to them. It sounds like his intentions are harmless. I would be happy to show him, AFTER laying out my expectations of how he will use the knowledge (i.e. anytime he performs it live, he gives ME full credit, and he does NOT make a recording of it of any kind.)

I dont know where you got that information, but it is completely false. you CAN file for a copyright. being able to prove that you wrote something doesn't do you any good if you never filed for the copyright. it costs 30 bucks per submission, which is why most people never get around to it.

go here:

www.copyright.gov/

it will explain everything. you do not automatically have a copyright when you create something.

 

[MrTAteMyBalls]

Correct.



Most of what you write here is correct, though your statement about "a work that you have not copyrighted" is not quite accurate. Under section 102 of the United States Copyright Act, copyright exists as soon as a work of authorship is "fixed in any tangible medium of expression ... from which [it] can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated ...." That means that if you write a song, copyright exists as soon as you record the song, write it down in written form or put it into any other tangible form. There are not additional steps that are necessary in order to "copyright" a work of authorship.

One can register a copyrighted work with the Register of Copyrights. Registration is not necessary for copyright to exist. However, a copyright may only be enforced in the United States district courts if registration has been made, which I believe is what you were getting at in your post.

However, your statement that "keeping evidence of when you wrote it doesn't do any good" is incorrect. In an infringement suit, evidence of when a work was authored can be probative of whether in fact the work was copied.

maybe i'm wrong but from what i've read you CANNOT file an infringement suit on something that you have not filed the copyright for. so if someone does steal your song, and you havent copyrighted it there isn't a thing you can do about it unless you have filed. So essentially, if you don't file....you have nothing except some sort of intangible intillectual property. Please correct me if I'm wrong because I want to give good advice here and to others. Thats why the "poor mans copyright" of mailing yourself the song doesn't work, right??? Sure, you can prove that you wrote the song prior to someone else using it....but you can't file an infringement suit so it doesn't do any good.

 

[electracoyote]

maybe i'm wrong but from what i've read you CANNOT file an infringement suit on something that you have not filed the copyright for. so if someone does steal your song, and you havent copyrighted it there isn't a thing you can do about it unless you have filed. So essentially, if you don't file....you have nothing except some sort of intangible intillectual property. Please correct me if I'm wrong because I want to give good advice here and to others. Thats why the "poor mans copyright" of mailing yourself the song doesn't work, right??? Sure, you can prove that you wrote the song prior to someone else using it....but you can't file an infringement suit so it doesn't do any good.

This is absolutely true.

You can have a sealed, self-addressed envelope, delivery confirmation from the US Post Office, containing your song with a copy of a newspaper from the day you packaged it, and 10,000 witnesses swearing on their mothers' graves that you played that song for them way back when, and it probably won't help you one bit.

The Federal Copyright document is the "gold standard" recognized by all district courts in the USA as proof of authorship and ownership of intellectual property.

Now, there is probably some rare exception out there, but this is almost always the case from my experience and understanding.

 

[electracoyote]

you do not automatically have a copyright when you create something.

You're very close here. To clarify:

In a technical sense, yes, you do have ownership and copyright of intellectual property at its creation.

However, in a legal sense, you probably won't be able to prove it in a court of law without the filed copyright documents to back up your claim.

I know, it's kinda like hair splitting. But not exactly.

 

[Febs]

maybe i'm wrong but from what i've read you CANNOT file an infringement suit on something that you have not filed the copyright for. so if someone does steal your song, and you havent copyrighted it there isn't a thing you can do about it unless you have filed. So essentially, if you don't file....you have nothing except some sort of intangible intillectual property. Please correct me if I'm wrong because I want to give good advice here and to others.

You are correct that registration is required to enforce a copyright. You are incorrect in that you equate registration with the creation of the copyright. Copyright protection exists regardless of registration. When you file, you are "registering" your copyrighted work; you are not "copyrighting" the work, because copyright already exists as long as the work is fixed in some tangible form.

This is not just a semantic distinction. Let's say I write and record a song today. A year from now, you record the song without my permission. I could file a federal registration at that time, and then sue for copyright infringement.

There are several advantages of registration, one of which is that under certain circumstances it is prima facie evidence of authorship. (In other words, registration makes it easier to prove authorship.)