HS410... Where does it stands between the following cabs?

[HolyGrowl]

Hi there,

Since i've not been 100% satisfied with my cabs lately, I wanted to take a look at the Bergs but since I can't try one out, I wanted to have your opinions as to where it falls among some cabs I tried.

The cabs I tested up until now are

Aguilar GS212
Mesa powerhouse 4x10
Eden 410XLT
Eden 210XST

Each and every one of them was played with the same amp, which I won't divulge to keep everyone to associate the sound of the amp with what they're used to hear from it and to just focus on the inherent quality of each cab.

So let's begin with the Eden 410XLT. I liked the cab. Handles lots of power but found that in a loud rock setting, the low mids became burried and only the deep lows and the mids were present. Which resulted in an annoying kind of growling, buzzing hi-mid sound.

Eden 210XST: Liked it a lot. Warm and punchy. The only thing I didn't like was that it became very thin and airy and lost it's punch once you get more than 5 feet away from the cab. Poor projection.

Mesa Powerhouse 4x10: Nothing but annoying hi-mids and highs. Airy, hollow sounding, no punch.

Aguilar GS212. The best I've tried so far. Very warm, punchy, very good projection. My problems with it is i've experience faulty drivers and lost trust in it being able to handle the volume i need even though the amp is never pushed pass 11 o'clock on either the gain or the master.

So, based on these characteristics. Where does the HS410 fall? I don't wanna hear that it's more consistent, more balanced etc... etc... Is it as warm as the Aguilar or is it more cold and mid sounding like the Eden 410XLT? What other sound texture qualities does it have?

Thanks.

 

[KJung]

Not many of these out there yet, since they only recently started shipping. However, based on my experience with the HS210, this series of cabs is all about the mids...even through low to high mids, with a somewhat compressed low end.

So, almost the opposite of the XST voicing, closer to the XLT, but with less absolute low end, and less of a low mid bump versus a lot of mids throughout the spectrum. The GS212 sounds closer to the XST line to me, but not nearly as loud as either the 410XST or XLT.

I would not call it a 'warm' cab though. The tweeter is crossed over quite low, so it has some aggressive upper mids, even with the tweeter turned down quite a bit. It's a punch monster though, and the really tight low end will be a positive to some, and sound thin to others.

From the way you describe the negatives and positives of the other cabs, my feeling is you would dig it a lot.

NOTE: This is assuming the HS410 sounds like a 'bigger' HS210, since my comments are based on my HS210 experience.

There's a new neo Bergantino 410, but they haven't started shipping yet, so not much info on tone. It sounds like they are voiced a little deeper and wider than the HS cabs, though... reading between the lines of Joel's posts from the Groove Shoppe.

Edit: I did spend some time with the Mesa410 recently. That's a GREAT sounding box... big, deep, fat, but with plenty of growl, and that switchable crossover is brilliant.. you can go from the upper mid growl of the Berg tone to a very airy, modern tone more similar to the Epi's. But... what a horse... really heavy, and really deep... virtually impossible for one person to pick up IMO.

 

[HolyGrowl]

Thanks KJung,

Did you mixed the XLT for the XST in your reply? As I have a hard time figuring why I would dig the HS410 if it's more mid voiced than the XLT. I didn't find the XLT full sounding at all in a live setting. All I would get is some mid-fart.

As for the Mesa, I know that cab can sound quite beautifully when paired with some amps. The walkabout and m-pulse have lot's of deep lows so i assume it fills for the lack of them in the cab. It's also true that i didn't fiddle with the crossover of that cab so i don't know if it was in a position to induce a cut in the low-mids and spike up the high mids.

 

[KJung]

Thanks KJung,

Did you mixed the XLT for the XST in your reply? As I have a hard time figuring why I would dig the HS410 if it's more mid voiced than the XLT. I didn't find the XLT full sounding at all in a live setting. All I would get is some mid-fart.

As for the Mesa, I know that cab can sound quite beautifully when paired with some amps. The walkabout and m-pulse have lot's of deep lows so i assume it fills for the lack of them in the cab. It's also true that i didn't fiddle with the crossover of that cab so i don't know if it was in a position to induce a cut in the low-mids and spike up the high mids.

No... my comments regarding the XST and XLT were accurate IMO.... you mentioned the XST was a little thin and wide sounding (which is totally opposite of the HS), but that the XLT was kind of peaky in the mids with too much low end extension (which is again very different from the HS).

The HS seems to punch throughout the entire mid range, and the somewhat attenuated low end allows the low mids to really punch through the mix, with very little rumble (again, based on the HS210 that I own).

Good point on the Mesa... I've only played that using the MPulse600, and that head makes any 410 sound deep, fat, and smooth!

The Schroeder410L is another cab you should check out... VERY strong in the low mids... just a punch monster.. loud and aggressive.... and only 16" deep like the Berg, but around 60 pounds or so. Pretty cool for a 'rock voiced' 410 to my ears. However, it falls off in the upper mids compared to the Berg HS voicing.

Edit: Have you tried the Berg NV610... it's also a punch monster, although quite vintage sounding given its sealed design with no tweeter.

 

[HolyGrowl]

Ok I understand what you mean between the two Eden cabs.

No I've never tried any Berg cabs nor heard any for that matter. I base myself only on the cabs I played and the raves Bergs are getting here. I also went and have a listen on the basstasters website and liked what I heard in comparison with the other cabs.

The way I could explain the tone I'm looking for is almost like Pino's sound with John Mayer if you listen to live performances. Particularily the one where they play "Who did you think I was" on Letterman. Except i'd dial in a tad more punch, but he's very close. I know he uses Epifani but from what I heard also on basstasters, i find them to be a bit more boomy in the lows and i like that the Berg is more compact and focused in that range.

 

[KJung]

Ok I understand what you mean between the two Eden cabs.

No I've never tried any Berg cabs nor heard any for that matter. I base myself only on the cabs I played and the raves Bergs are getting here. I also went and have a listen on the basstasters website and liked what I heard in comparison with the other cabs.

The way I could explain the tone I'm looking for is almost like Pino's sound with John Mayer if you listen to live performances. Particularily the one where they play "Who did you think I was" on Letterman. Except i'd dial in a tad more punch, but he's very close. I know he uses Epifani but from what I heard also on basstasters, i find them to be a bit more boomy in the lows and i like that the Berg is more compact and focused in that range.

Makes sense. The original Epi T versions and the later NYC models were quite polite in the mids and deep in the bass response. The newer UL' s are more punchy to my ear.

Also, it's difficult to put your hand on the 'Bergantino tone', since the HT's the HS's, the NV's and I assume the new Neo AE's all sound quite different... different drivers, different crossovers, different tweeters or no tweeters or mid drivers, etc.

For that Pino P Bass tone on the Mayer recordings... it would be the NV610 all the way. Warm, mid punch with plenty of tight low end, and a nice upper mid paper cone response with no tweeter... nice!!!!!! The NV215 is amazing also... 2x15 with a mid driver... fatter and warmer than the 610, with a little more upper mid extension.

You might want to check on the NV threads and talk to some of those guys through PM's.

Edit: TBer Fuzzbass has owned most of the various version of Berg's, and I think he currently owns 2xHS210's (basically a modular HS410) and also the NV610. He could probably give you a more accurate scoop on these, since his tone goal seems closer to yours than what I go for.