Hum-canceling 5 string Jazz pickups

[bajistapromedio]

Here is my predicament: I have a Wendler fretted 5 string (which I received 4 months ago), and absolutely love everything about it, except for the single coil Jazz pickups, which emit a 60hz hum, and sound a little too “mellow” in certain situations (such as a Latin Jazz ensemble I play in, which has a full horn section, 4 different percussionists, 2 guitarists, a pianist, a Rhodes, and a drum kit ). It also tends to get buried in the mix at large venues which require the use of subwoofers for FOH. The natural/unplugged sound of the bass is very punchy/lively (which, to me, means that it has pronounced low mids, and a slight peak in the 900hz to 10khz range).

The bass currently has single coil EMG-SELJ pickups (some sort of USA version of their Korean Select line). I have a set of Bartolini CBC stacked Jazz pickups in a fretless 4 which sound wonderful, so I transplanted the pickups into my Wendler 5 in order to hear how they sound in a fretted instrument. They sounded much clearer (close to the natural tone of the instrument), with a more defined B string than the EMG set, but the output was lower (and, of course, the A string was inaudible, since they are 4 string pickups).

So, I thought I would ask fellow TB members for your advice. I am looking for hum free, passive, 5 string, J style pickups that have similar sonic characteristics to the Bartolini “Classic” Jazz set (such as a peak in the low mids, pronounced/vintage sounding high mids, and a a boost in the 4khz to 10khz range), but with higher output. I would like to keep the price as low as possible as well (say, below $200 US).

Any Suggestions?

Thanks.

 

[Vakmere]

I dont think it's the humming that bugs me rather the irritating buzzing from single coils. Sadowsky hum canceling pups are very good. $160 shipped. The extra magnet they install under the coils is the ticket.

 

[Jazz Ad]

Not an easy request. Barts have a signature tone of their own.
The Aero PJ sounds somewhat similar. I don't know how much output it has.

 

[bajistapromedio]

Thanks for the advice.

Sadowsky hum canceling pups are very good. $160 shipped.

The Sadowsky pickups do sound very nice, however the clips of the hum cancelling pickups I heard (or rather saw on Youtube) sounded somewhat scooped. On the other hand, I do have the Sadowsky outboard preamp, so the Sad Pickups may go well with it. Are not these pickups in some way related to Dimarzio Ultra J's?

The Aero PJ sounds somewhat similar.

Are there any recording bassists known to use these, so I could check out their recordings?

I am also considering the SGD Lutherie Neodymium Jazz Humbuckers. They sound promising:
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[76JazzRay]

I just put the split coil Fralins in my 76 Jazz and they sound great. Highly recommend them. No getting lost in the mix with these babies. I shielded the bass with conductive paint in the cavities and voila! Quiet as a church mouse.

 

[RPIcka]

I believe Dimarzio makes the pickups for Sadowsky.

 

[msiner]

I believe Dimarzio makes the pickups for Sadowsky.

I think the general consensus is that the Sadowsky HC is derived from the Ultra Jazz and made by DiMarzio with the most notable change being raised pole pieces for the 2nd and 3rd strings (on the 4 string version at least) to compensate for the Ultra Jazz scooped voice.

 

[bongomania]

I am also considering the SGD Lutherie Neodymium Jazz Humbuckers. They sound promising:
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They do sound quite promising, though of course I haven't tried them yet. The ones I love the most right now are Duncan Basslines Stacked J. They are actually designed very much like the SGD's. They have a smooth, full tone, not scooped at all IMO, with zero noise of any kind, and they respond well to different strings (bright rounds, warm flats, etc.). If I was to criticize them, I'd say they don't have the raw punchy dynamic liveliness of single-coil pups; but then that's the complaint about pretty much all humbuckers. They do not have the dull or extra-compressed tone of the Barts, though, they're more responsive than that.

 

[bajistapromedio]

I just put the split coil Fralins in my 76 Jazz and they sound great. Highly recommend them. No getting lost in the mix with these babies. I shielded the bass with conductive paint in the cavities and voila! Quiet as a church mouse.

I did not see a 5 string option for these in their price list, only for the single coil. Have you made any recordings with your new pickups yet?

 

[bajistapromedio]

The ones I love the most right now are Duncan Basslines Stacked J.

If I was to criticize them, I'd say they don't have the raw punchy dynamic liveliness of single-coil pups; but then that's the complaint about pretty much all humbuckers. They do not have the dull or extra-compressed tone of the Barts, though, they're more responsive than that.

Actually, the Bartolini CBC stacked J with "bright" winding, which I have on my 4 string, is quite punchy, and not as muffled as the usual Bartolini's, but the output is a little on the low side.

I am wondering If I should just do the safe thing and get the Barts, since I already know how they sound.

 

[walterw]

I think the general consensus is that the Sadowsky HC is derived from the Ultra Jazz and made by DiMarzio with the most notable change being raised pole pieces for the 2nd and 3rd strings (on the 4 string version at least) to compensate for the Ultra Jazz scooped voice.

OT, but will someone give me one good reason all jazz bass pickups aren't built with raised A and D magnets? it doesn't compensate for "scoop", implying EQ, but rather string balance, due to the outer strings being closer to the coil than the inner strings.

on vintage jazz's, you're forced to drop the E side of both pickups farther away than necessary to keep that E from overwhelming the middle strings.

 

[76JazzRay]

I did not see a 5 string option for these in their price list, only for the single coil. Have you made any recordings with your new pickups yet?

You are correct, I didn't think it thru and wrote too quickly. I have not made any recordings with them but the sound is incredible. Warm but with nice presence and little bit of attitude when you dig into the string.

Are you sure your hum isn't a shielding problem? My Jazz hummed like crazy and the split coil didn't fix it.

There can be hum when the 2 pups have different volume settings but if it's more persistent than that, I'd look at shielding too.

 

[Bassamatic]

As soon as possible after receiving a new bass, I shield the cavities and pickguard with copper foil tape from Stew-Mac. This fixes 90% of the hum and buzz issue, regardless of the pickups. Be sure that the copper is grounded.

 

[bajistapromedio]

Are you sure your hum isn't a shielding problem? My Jazz hummed like crazy and the split coil didn't fix it.

I think that the shielding may be a big part of the humming and buzzing issue, since the electronics are located outside the body, underneath a raised pick guard, due to the thinness of the body.

Considering this, I am wondering if I should just drop in a set of Active SJB-5 of EMG-J pickups. I would loose the bridge mounted pezo, which is part of the proprietary passive system, but I hardly use it.

So many choices...

 

[micguy]

One thing to note: In line hum cancelling pickups for 5 strings do reduce hum, but they don't cancel it completely. If you have 4 strings, you have 2 strings covered by each coil - the halves of the pickup; are identical/mirror imaged halves, so the hum that each half picks up are identical, and 2 minus 2 equals zero - the hum completely cancels (or damn near it). With a 5 string, you have 3 strings (and sets of pole pieces) on one side, and 2 on the other. The amount of hum each part picks up aren not equal, and 3 minus 2 equals 1 (not zero). A single coil pickup has 5 sets of pole pieces, so using the same math, it has "5" in terms of hum - an inline hum cancelling 5 string pickup gives you one fifth the amount of hum of a single coil. That's down 14 dB if you're an audio Engineer, which is quite a bit, but it's still not "gone".

Most (not sure about all) of the hum cancelling 5 string sets do flip which strings get the 2 and which get the 3 between the bridge and neck pickups (that's probably clear as mud), with the result being that, WHEN YOU USE BOTH PICKUPS, you get very essentially complete cancellation - just like with a pair of RWRP single coils.

Anyway, just know that if you get a hum cancelling J set works a bunch better at hum cancelling than a single coil set when a pickup is soloed, but it's not perfect.

A lot of Split P and Soapbar 5 string pickups use staggered pole pieces, and have a 6th pole piece hidden under the hood to balance the coils, so the math goes to 3 minus 3 - zero hum (or damn close).