Humans with perfect internal tempo? Do they exist?

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

TL;DR - have you ever met anyone who has proven they have perfect tempo?

I record a lot of people in my little home studio, and try to use a click when possible. Its always been my assumption that no matter how good a musician is, "nobody keeps perfect tempo" for the entirety of a song without a click. Meaning, there is nobody I have ever encountered who starts and ends dead-on 120bpm, for example, with no drifting in between.

But for all I know, there may indeed be people who can provably do this. Heck, since I'm not somebody who went to a conservatory, it may in fact be more common than I realize in certain circles. To me that seems super human. But then again, so does perfect pitch, and that definitely exists.

So I am just asking out of curiosity, do you know or have you encountered anyone who's tempo is "perfect" just like someone with perfect pitch? Are there people to whom you can say "play me a 131 bmp beat for 3 minutes" and it starts and ends on that exact tempo without drifting?

131 bpm is more of an exercise for your body than something which you can use to test your internal timing, for instance, in my case I like to practice hand-drumming playing on recorded tunes.
With 100/110 bpm I can easily play for 3 minutes without any drifting.
Is my internal tempo perfect? I don’t know, probably not, but surely is good enough for me since I never needed a metronome while playing.
It may sound silly, however one of the few tracks I always had problem playing drums in, with both my hands or mind, is the beginning of Black Sabbath’s “War Pigs” as I can’t seem to memorise when to open and close the hi-hat exactly ..

 

[Jogobass]

the more you train it the better it gets. But perfect? Maybe a select few have it.

 

[PeaveyPlayer]

Jeff porcaro

 

[OptimalOptimus]

https://youtube.com/shorts/UeHhbgyNMIQ?si=1Vk34s0C6ounsL38

 

[blastoff]

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

Let me say .. Steve Gadd .. yes

 

[dbsfgyd1]

TL;DR - have you ever met anyone who has proven they have perfect tempo?

I record a lot of people in my little home studio, and try to use a click when possible. Its always been my assumption that no matter how good a musician is, "nobody keeps perfect tempo" for the entirety of a song without a click. Meaning, there is nobody I have ever encountered who starts and ends dead-on 120bpm, for example, with no drifting in between.

But for all I know, there may indeed be people who can provably do this. Heck, since I'm not somebody who went to a conservatory, it may in fact be more common than I realize in certain circles. To me that seems super human. But then again, so does perfect pitch, and that definitely exists.

So I am just asking out of curiosity, do you know or have you encountered anyone who's tempo is "perfect" just like someone with perfect pitch? Are there people to whom you can say "play me a 131 bmp beat for 3 minutes" and it starts and ends on that exact tempo without drifting?

‘I’ve not run into anybody that did. That said, is perfect meter really that important when you are playing with real musicians playing real instrument? When playing in an ensemble, tempo variation is an important part of musical expression.

 

[BigBadBen67]

I'm always surprised that more musicians don't specifically practice time, especially drummers. It's truly one of the things that separates out the greats. I've learned two things over the years. First, time and time feel is a skill that must be studied and practiced; every bit as much as finger technique, ear training, or anything else. And second, it's something you should warm up. I've had it happen any number of times where I go to record a track and just can't nail it as well as I would like. But then after taking twenty minutes to practice some timing and groove exercises I come back and I'm way more in the pocket.

It's a thing. I remember hearing Marcus Miller comment somewhere that you can always tell whether a bass player has put in the time working with a metronome.

 

[allboutbass]

I used to play live with a drum and a bass player that were pretty good, two consecutive night we multi track recorded those gigs to be mixed later on for promo stuff.

So came the day to mix those shows. Me, guitar player ( I play Bass as well - no booing please ) and our singer were working on the sessions to be mixed and we thought as a joke or test really, took one song and imported the bass from the day before to compare with the actual drum tracks ... oh man were we amazed ... those guys just play dead on each other ...

No click track what so ever, as is my opinion that you end up with hearing damage if you use click track live as monitoring levels are quite loud live. I mean you can use a click as it could help. Hope hearing could last forever but it does not.

Any how ... some guys are rock solid, sure those tracks were not perfect metronomes, but they were to each other on separate days and moods.

Just a thought ... I have been in studio with some pretty big names and have seen, prepared and cleaned audio for mixing sessions and some most impressive grooves are far from perfect. So perfection doesn't mean groovy, as I have listened to, as well, very precise playing but boring as hell, a snooze really.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have perfect tempo and perfect pitch but I don't.

 

[Obese Chess]

In the metal scene, Gene Hoglan (Death, Strapping Young Lad, Testament, Dethklok, Fear Factory, and more) is known as "The Human Drum Machine" and "The Atomic Clock."

Tomas Haake from Meshuggah is also known for his precision, consistency, and stamina, though his body of work is less diverse than Gene's.

Perfect? Probably not. But so close most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference? Absolutely.

 

[lOmnivore S]

Humans with perfect internal tempo?

I have that impression that i've always been...
We all find better gifted ones at times, yes.

 

[ImTheOnlyOne]

 

[JazznFunk]

I'm always surprised that more musicians don't specifically practice time, especially drummers. It's truly one of the things that separates out the greats. I've learned two things over the years. First, time and time feel is a skill that must be studied and practiced; every bit as much as finger technique, ear training, or anything else. And second, it's something you should warm up. I've had it happen any number of times where I go to record a track and just can't nail it as well as I would like. But then after taking twenty minutes to practice some timing and groove exercises I come back and I'm way more in the pocket.

It's a thing. I remember hearing Marcus Miller comment somewhere that you can always tell whether a bass player has put in the time working with a metronome.

This. And having a natural sense of time is a real thing too. Some have it, some don't. I was fortunate that from day 1 of starting bass, I didn't really have issues with time. I certainly had a long way to go to develop nuance and a vocabulary of rhythm and making that feel good for sure, but the sense of time was always there. When I was in college, we were taking turns practicing soloing over X set of changes in our Jazz Theory class (a mix of bassists and guitarists in this particular class) and my professor, who was a great player, made a comment that stuck with me. He noted that even though I missed some notes here and there, or could have made better note selections, that my time and feel over the backing tracks we were using was great, and that poor note choices can be smoothed over a bit easier with great time and feel. Fast forward a few years and the bulk of my playing has ended up being mostly duos or even drummer-less trios. I spent HOURS working on time in the shed over my 26 years of playing now, practicing to drum machines, pre-recorded drum tracks by really good drummers (Bernard Purdie, etc.), and keeping my time as a key focus. What my professor told me made me put PRESERVING my sense of time and feel at the top of my priority list as I kept tacking on years playing. It still is up there.

I've always told other bassists that getting your time together without a drummer and knowing without any other reference what feels good and solid is something that will pay big dividends. When I play with drummers now, it's so refreshing to be able to feel exactly where we lock in (or where we don't) and adjust accordingly.

 

[Nedmundo]

For ten years, I played with a drummer who, at his best, was capable of playing with perfect tempo. He demonstrated this when we were finishing up recording one track for an EP, and our lead guitarist suggested we add another rhythm guitar with tremolo.

Seemed like a great idea, but we hadn't recorded the drums with a click, so we were concerned the tremolo and drums would be way out of sync by the end of the track.

Nope. It was perfect.

 

[funkifiedsoul]

Can you say Bernard Purdy?

 

[petermwright]

It's hard for me to accept the word "perfect" in any discussion that also includes the word "human." Even the concept of "perfect pitch," at least for me, is open to a need for more precise definition. If "perfect pitch" is the ability to identify any pitch simply by hearing it, then I have perfect pitch. If it's the ability to home in on A440 within a few cents reliably, then I have perfect pitch. If it truly means no errors ever, and the ability to know, upon hearing one A without any other A in comparison, whether it's A440 or A440.5, then no, I don't have perfect pitch. Somedays I'm off by as much as three or four Hz.

You’re doing yourself a disservice. That is perfect pitch. You have perfect pitch.

 

[Winton]

TL;DR - have you ever met anyone who has proven they have perfect tempo?

I record a lot of people in my little home studio, and try to use a click when possible. Its always been my assumption that no matter how good a musician is, "nobody keeps perfect tempo" for the entirety of a song without a click. Meaning, there is nobody I have ever encountered who starts and ends dead-on 120bpm, for example, with no drifting in between.

But for all I know, there may indeed be people who can provably do this. Heck, since I'm not somebody who went to a conservatory, it may in fact be more common than I realize in certain circles. To me that seems super human. But then again, so does perfect pitch, and that definitely exists.

So I am just asking out of curiosity, do you know or have you encountered anyone who's tempo is "perfect" just like someone with perfect pitch? Are there people to whom you can say "play me a 131 bmp beat for 3 minutes" and it starts and ends on that exact tempo without drifting?

I do.
My friend back in high school was a drummer and he said he had perfect tempo. We were like naaaaaaah so we tested him. He nailed it each time! Grant it, we were checking on those metronomes with a wheel so it had all the standard tempos like 76bpm or 144bpm. But it still blew my mind.

Like I said, he was a drummer. Guess what he’s doing now. He’s a professional bassist!

 

[thmsjordan]

Like my College doublebass instructor always said

There are only three kinds of musician in this world: Those who can count, and those who cannot.

 

[Big Heavy Bass]

One of my early bands was a blues/r&b band, the leader/guitar player was about 25 years older than me and the drummer (we were about 21) in fact he was my first bass teacher when I was about 12. He was always talking/yelling at us about feeling the beat, when to be on top of it or behind etc. One day at practice he put on one of those old fashioned metronomes with the moving arm and started playing a syncopated funk groove, he than walked out of the practice space and across the street (he had a wireless) and stood out there for a few minutes perfectly locked in and grooving with the metronome. When he returned he said.."I never rush or drag, I expect the same from you guys". Needless to say we were impressed.

 

[jutty17]

Bill Bruford says "Hold my beer".