Humans with perfect internal tempo? Do they exist?

[petermwright]

with pitch, there's a lot of people with very good relative pitch, but a very select few with actual perfect pitch…

I’m sure you’re completely aware of this, but perfect pitch and relative pitch are totally different things, not different degrees of the same thing. I only mention it because I have seen people on forums say things to that effect before.

as someone else said above, real music breathes.
take Headhunters' Chameleon. some of the best musicians in the world and that thing speeds up like crazy. im sure they didn't do it by "accident" but it goes to show that the greatest musical minds don't necessarily stick to a monolithic metronomic meter.

Chameleon is a great example - likewise, Stewart Copeland. Great drummer, anything but metronomic.

 

[micguy]

I'm a decent bassist and I do not have perfect pitch; I have relative pitch. I can't sing a note. However, all my life I have been able to identify when the beat is a even a hair slow or a hair fast. I might have perfect tempo. It's my only musical super power.

If you have to choose one musical super power, it would be really good timing. The wrong note at the right time is better the the right note at the wrong time; a band where everyone is tight timing wise is a glorious thing. People give you the stank face* much more because you're landing everything at the right time than they do for "oooh, that was a good note".

*the "you done good" stank face, in case there's any doubt.

 

[micguy]

I’m sure you’re completely aware of this, but perfect pitch and relative pitch are totally different things, not different degrees of the same thing.

There are degrees of perfect pitch. I will sometimes wake up with a tone in my head. I can sing "C" or whatever it is that is in my head, go to my bass, and if a tone is there in my head, I am always right on. I also have issues if I tune a bass to D standard - anything besides E standard, because my brain will hear "C" and my fingers go to where C should be. I once went backpacking, and there was a bell on a buoy that rang whenever the waves rocked the buoy - an F sharp. A few years later, I found a recording on line, and...yes, F sharp. I have elements of perfect pitch, and the more I play, the stronger they are.

But I can't always on command sing any pitch that someone calls out at any time. I don't have that level/degree of perfect pitch. There are people that can do that.

 

[SoonerBill]

We had a first chair violinist in our college orchestra that could play any tempo she was told perfectly. We tested her with a metronome often and she was spot on. Occasionally the conductor would swear she was fast or slow on a piece. He was always wrong.

 

[toddsterbassist]

Phil Rudd

 

[Bob_Ross]

there's also debate on what 'perfect' even is in terms of time/tempo.

For those intrigued by the Thought Experiment aspect of what "perfect" time even means, consider this:

A metronome, or click-track, or conductor's physical beat pattern, or any other deliniation of the tempo, is not an infinitely small point in time; it has a duration. So the question of where during that click's duration a musical event would have to occur in order to be "perfectly" aligned is like Zeno's Paradox: No matter how finely you slice time, there is always a finer subdivision.

::sets bong down:::

 

[petermwright]

There are degrees of perfect pitch. I will sometimes wake up with a tone in my head. I can sing "C" or whatever it is that is in my head, go to my bass, and if a tone is there in my head, I am always right on. I also have issues if I tune a bass to D standard - anything besides E standard, because my brain will hear "C" and my fingers go to where C should be. I once went backpacking, and there was a bell on a buoy that rang whenever the waves rocked the buoy - an F sharp. A few years later, I found a recording on line, and...yes, F sharp. I have elements of perfect pitch, and the more I play, the stronger they are.

But I can't always on command sing any pitch that someone calls out at any time. I don't have that level/degree of perfect pitch. There are people that can do that.

Yes, there are degrees of perfect pitch - but it’s still fundamentally different to relative pitch. They’re totally different things.

 

[blastoff]

Yes, there are degrees of perfect pitch - but it’s still fundamentally different to relative pitch. They’re totally different things.

yes exactly. good relative pitch is more or less common, and likewise many people can probably get close to, say, singing an A440 out of the blue, but as i understand it actual infallible perfect pitch is something very few people have and you either have it or you don't. (not so sure about degrees of perfect..) it seems to be as much an affliction as a natural ability, perhaps on par with synesthesia or even autism??

 

[petermwright]

yes exactly. good relative pitch is more or less common, and likewise many people can probably get close to, say, singing an A440 out of the blue, but as i understand it actual infallible perfect pitch is something very few people have and you either have it or you don't. (not so sure about degrees of perfect..) it seems to be as much an affliction as a natural ability, perhaps on par with synesthesia or even autism??

Absolute pitch - the ability to identify pitches without a reference - there are definitely degrees of that. Some people can do it great on their main instrument, but less well on other instruments. Some can do it on any instrument (or any sound - air conditioners, etc). I’ve had pupils with varying degrees of it - one thing they had in common, though, is that if you play a chord, they can get the top note, but struggle with the lower ones. Rick Beato’s son Dylan, however, has insane perfect pitch - he can name all the notes of the most dissonant polychord with ease.

Some people can identify some notes reliably on any instrument - but not all 12.

There is no defined threshold for what counts as perfect pitch, that I’m aware of. But these are all different degrees of the same basic ability. You could call it absolute pitch or perfect pitch. I use the two terms interchangeably, myself. Personally I don’t consider perfect pitch to imply infallibility, but rather just another name for absolute pitch.

 

[retslock]

TL;DR - have you ever met anyone who has proven they have perfect tempo?

I record a lot of people in my little home studio, and try to use a click when possible. Its always been my assumption that no matter how good a musician is, "nobody keeps perfect tempo" for the entirety of a song without a click. Meaning, there is nobody I have ever encountered who starts and ends dead-on 120bpm, for example, with no drifting in between.

But for all I know, there may indeed be people who can provably do this. Heck, since I'm not somebody who went to a conservatory, it may in fact be more common than I realize in certain circles. To me that seems super human. But then again, so does perfect pitch, and that definitely exists.

So I am just asking out of curiosity, do you know or have you encountered anyone who's tempo is "perfect" just like someone with perfect pitch? Are there people to whom you can say "play me a 131 bmp beat for 3 minutes" and it starts and ends on that exact tempo without drifting?

Being human myself with very good but not perfect timing, I couldn't say if such a person exists. Without my own perfect timing, how would I recognise it?
What I do know is that many drummers and other musicians I've played with certainly don't have it either.

So many drummers - so little time.

Is perfect tempo so desirable when good tempo seems perfectly adequate? Given that music has drama - tension and release - tempo can and at times should shift. I for one don't want to play with a metronome. Music has to breathe, however, good tempo would be nice if only more musicians had it.

 

[Matt Dean]

Once a recording engineer who had been behind the board at a recording session I was supporting told me a few years later that I had really good time. I definitely can feel when others (especially drummers) are dragging or rushing. But its not something I think about much when playing.