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I can't be alone here....(hard bass parts)

#2
Yes, this happens to me. I think sometimes your brain just says "enough already" and you end just getting your fingers in a twist. When you walk away and come back, it's like your brain has had time to process everything.

That said, I do find that when I am in that frustrated bit, I probably just need to slow it down and stay at a slower tempo for longer than I want to :)
 
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#3
Your brain and your body both work that way. That is why elite athletes plan peaks for the most important events or part of season. You reach a functional limit and you "plateau". Your brain understands the objective even though you're not achieving it. You give it a rest, a refresh, and when you come back in a way you are starting near where you left off instead of starting where you were a year ago. It's as much related to your brain as your hand.
 
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#4
Harper said:
What's that all about?
Click to expand...
@WrapRough and @Killing Floor are onto it. :thumbsup:

it's a version of "spontaneous recovery." it's common, and your example is expected, e.g., "let's give it a rest and come back to it 'fresh'...later."

"fresh" really isn't fresh (your brain/neuro is working for you), and "later" shouldn't really be too late (or you'd be starting over, i.e., if previous learning has actually been 'extinguished').
 
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#5
Yup. The brain and mind are a weird thing. Give them a problem to solve and forget about it, more often than not there'll be a background process chewing away on it until an answer is found. No nice confirmation notice if it comes up empty after all, though. Someone should do something about that UI! hehe
 
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#7
Harper said:
How often do you find yourself working on a particularly tricky bass part only to get frustrated and walk away from it.......only to try it again weeks/months later and it comes to you easily?

What's that all about?
Click to expand...
I think there's two parts of it. One, I think your brain kind of adapts to challenges you have attempted even if you don't keep at them, so when you come back to them, you find them easier.

Secondly, I think that when you "give up" and then come back to it later... you give up because you're frustrated, but when you come back to it, chances are you are not in the same state of frustration. Frustration will preoccupy you and make mistakes more likely, so trying something again when you aren't frustrated will let you focus more.
 
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#8
Nope. I'll get frustrated, walk away, come back and it still won't work haha
Honestly though, I've tried to learn tommy the cat for about 4 years and got it eventually after changing my position and the angle of my thumb.
Tried to learn blood and thunder by mastodon once. Well, I tried for like 5 minutes before deciding that it was not worth the headache and never revisited it. Maybe some other day
 
#9
Harper said:
How often do you find yourself working on a particularly tricky bass part only to get frustrated and walk away from it.......only to try it again weeks/months later and it comes to you easily?

What's that all about?
Click to expand...

This is normal IMHO. I have experienced it many times.

I think we develop mental blocks when we are working on difficult tasks. We may actually learn to do a task, but the mental block prevents us from actually doing it. Take a break and your brain keeps working to master the task, and also unlocks.

When I prepare for a tour, I go through the music and identify all of the sections I need to work on. When I start to get frustrated with a section, I put it down and start working on the next session. I keep doing this until I have worked through all sections. Then I start over again. The idea here is to avoid pounding for so long that I become frustrated and blocked.

Before working sections up, the first step is to work out fingerings. After I finalize the fingering, each time I work through a section, I slowly increase the tempo until I hit the wall and can't play any faster. Usually each section will get a little faster and cleaner each time I cycle through. But the next time I come to the section, I will slow it down a bit, and then work it up to a slightly faster tempo.

When I feel I have essentially mastered a section at a tempo that is a bit faster than it will be performed, I set it aside and continue cycling through the remaining sections I have not mastered yet. Eventually I reach a point where I have either mastered all sections, or I need to let it go for the day.

The next time I practice, I review the sections to determine which are good to go and which need additional work. Then I use the same process. Usually progress goes much faster on succeeding practice sessions.

Some times I get stuck and can't master certain sessions by performance day. Sometimes you have to simplify, and play an easier line that serves the music.


Frequently the music is turned in a few weeks after the last performance. So there is an extended break where I have not played or worked on the music. If I try to play through the sections I failed to master, I have often noticed that my mental block is gone and I can actually work the section up fairly easily.
 
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#12
jdjk7 said:
I think there's two parts of it. One, I think your brain kind of adapts to challenges you have attempted even if you don't keep at them, so when you come back to them, you find them easier.

Secondly, I think that when you "give up" and then come back to it later... you give up because you're frustrated, but when you come back to it, chances are you are not in the same state of frustration. Frustration will preoccupy you and make mistakes more likely, so trying something again when you aren't frustrated will let you focus more.
Click to expand...
And pressure. The first time, you put pressure on yourself and end up giving up because you can't do it. The second time, the pressure falls away because you know you can't do it and there is nothing to lose.
 
#13
Salud!

I think all humans function that way. I know well that, for learning tricky parts/skills, I just have to repeat them slowly to get the correct mechanical aspects for a day or two and then let it rest in a corner of my brain for 2-3 days. The gremlins there make the necessary connections and... alas!

Also, it's important to know your frustration point and stop when reaching it, because it does no good to keep on banging your head against the wall.
 
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#14
Yes! A break from playing (for me) is always followed by a leap forward in my abilities.

I also noticed when I was training in martial arts (started at age 30) that I could go over sparring scenarios in my mind, and it was as good or better than actual sparring. It was like a form of visualization where, in my mind, I saw myself doing something so when the opportunity came, it felt like I had practiced it. I would watch my opponent spar other people, see where weaknesses were, see myself trying different attacks/defenses, all without breaking a sweat. I have yet to try this with bass techniques... but now... I'm going to have to!
 
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#16
basted said:
Your subconscious mind works it out for you. While you are doing other things your subconscious mind is helping you out by resolving problems.
Click to expand...

This for me, for any task or project. Step away or sleep on it, and things come together easier at the next attempt. "Sleep on it", as they say.

Several short learning sessions are much more productive for me.
 
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#17
Aye. Like others have said, your brain is working on tasks and solving problems and reinforcing the things you're actively learning even while you're not actively doing that task. It also does this while you're sleeping. So, stepping away from something for a while will often improve performance.

They've done experiments to back this up. I think it might have been Neil DeGrasse Tyson or a similar science person, who did a demonstration of this in action in a documentary once. Pretty sure the experiment went like this:

They put him in a full body skiing simulator game and had him learn how to ski a certain race course. Then they timed an official run. Then he went to sleep, and the next day did another official run without any practice and it was a better time than the day before when he was actively practicing. And the results are fairly consistent with most people doing that experiment. You perform better after you stop training, sleep, and come back to the thing, even if you don't do any more training.

Your brain is actually building muscle memory and pattern memory and coordination for the task while you sleep or do other things!

Our brains are kinda crazy, all the things they do without us. Also, sleep is important.
 
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#18
The term of art is Incubation. From mr wiki:

incubation refers to the unconscious processing of problems, when they are set aside for a period of time, that may lead to insights. It was originally proposed by Graham Wallas in 1926 as one of his four stages of the creative process: preparation, incubation, illumination, and verification.[1] Incubation is related to intuition and insight in that it is the unconscious part of a process whereby an intuition may become validated as an insight. Incubation substantially increases the odds of solving a problem, and benefits from long incubation periods with low cognitive workloads.[2]

The experience of leaving a problem for a period of time and then finding that the difficulty evaporates on returning to the problem, or, even more striking, that the solution "comes out of the blue" when thinking about something else, is widespread. Many guides to effective thinking and problem solving advise the reader to set problems aside for a time.
 
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#19
This happens in a lot of areas. The subconscious part of the mind continues to chew on the problem long after the conscious mind lets it go. I know among chess players, a break from the game will frequently reveal move options or combinations one didn't see earlier. Many innovative people knew the power of taking a break from the problem at hand and coming back fresh later.

It's not a bug, it's a feature.
 
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#20
Same thing here: one of my goal is to transcribe on bass the three solos from "So what" from Miles Davis. I've started with the Miles solo. It came pretty easily. Then i knocked my head on the John Coltrane solo. And i couldn't go further than the two or three first bars. I let it down. It was perhaps 5 years ago. Then i came back to it at the end of 2022. Finally i've transcribed the John Coltrane solo plus the Eric Dolphy's one. But i made the mistake to transcribe all parts note by note, write it in tabs with the idea of learning it after. And then i've reached the second plateau: it's pretty hard to learn and remember it even with the tab. I'm at the middle of the JC solo and frustrated.
So i've let it down for now and tried another approach with the new tune i try(John Mc Laughlin - Seven sisters 》 all melodies): transcribe and learn at the same time, little by little. And it seems to be more efficient. Each day i add two or three bars, and little by little i can play all of it.
 
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