I Don't What to Practice (or how to)

[Lammchop93]

I've been playing bass for around 20 years. From a technical standpoint, I feel like I can play just about any song that I am asked to learn. However I don't know how to practice other than just jamming along with recorded songs.

I want to grow as a musician and a bass player, and would like some guidance on what and how to practice.

What I feel comfortable with:
-Major and Minor scale
-Technical ability to play
-Playing with a band
-Memorizing Songs to play in a gig setting

What I struggle with:
-Hearing a chord progression and know what it is. I feel like I have to poke around the fretboard to find what I am hearing vs recognizing patterns
-Any type of improv. I tend to just stick to box patterns on the fretboard


I know I want to improve my struggle items, but quite frankly I don't know how to get better at these. Any advice?

Some clarifying comments people were asking:
I play rock primarily (modern and classic), and some country
-I don't really have a need/desire to solo. I just want to be able to improv fills and basslines to carry the song

 

[Lobster11]

My first suggestion is to learn some basic music theory. You don't need to do a deep dive: A book like Music Theory for Dummies would take you a long way toward, among other things, helping you understand why chord progressions tend to follow certain patterns so you know what to listen for.

I would also suggest learning to play those major and minor scales using a variety of fingerings (at least three for a one-octave scale) so you don't get trapped in a box and can play more freely.

 

[silky smoove]

My gateway into understanding music theory was learning the modes of the major scale. From there you can quickly get to understanding chord construction, and what makes a chord diatonic to a given key. From there you can very quickly begin to more clearly understand chord progressions and be able to speak more clearly with other musicians. In my experience, having those elements nailed down is a HUGE step above many of your peers in terms of being an effective musician across a variety of genres and settings.

 

[Wasnex]

What I struggle with:
-Hearing a chord progression and know what it is. I feel like I have to poke around the fretboard to find what I am hearing vs recognizing patterns

There is a difference between hearing a chord progression and being able to play along, versus hearing a chord progression and being able to name the chords. My guess is you can already hear a simple chord progression and play along. It becomes difficult quickly as the chord progression becomes more complex/advanced.

It's a very high bar to be able to hear chords and name and memorize the progression. AFAIK most people who can hear a progression once and play it use a numbering system, like Nashville numbers. The trick with this approach is you build up a library of chord progressions. Eventually you reach a point where you are not learning new progression, you are remembering something you already know. So might hear a new song and recognize the verse is from song A and the chorus is from song B.

In order to do this, IMHO you need a significant amount of theory and ear training under your built. You also probably need unusually strong memory aptitudes to include short-term, long-term, and active memory. I think it would be pretty much impossible to do what you want without the necessary natural aptitude. I consider it beyond me.

-Any type of improv. I tend to just stick to box patterns on the fretboard

The way to get past this is critical listening and ear training, learning the finger board really well, and learning the related theory. There is no grand unifying music theory. It's beneficial to learn the theory that applies to the specific styles of music you are interested in. Natural talent is a significant factor here as well. While I can solo, I don't consider myself a great soloist.

Another aspect of soloing is playing a piece in to be more free. Basically you need to be able to anticipate the changes rather than thinking about it. In order to get outside your normal box, slow down, think, and experiment. Rather than playing end to end, focus on what to play over a limited number of bars.

IMHO playing a good solo is usually a lot more about composition and doing your home work than true impromptu playing. You build a vocabulary during practice and during an actual live solo you mostly draw on your vocabulary rather than playing something new that you have never played before.

The problem is not necessarily playing box patterns, but not knowing enough different box patterns.

When I play, my mental process varies. I might use my ear, then jump to an analytical/theoretical approach, and then resort to some sort of box pattern. There are lot's of scales that seem to work better as learned box shapes and numbered intervals, rather than thinking in terms of note names. Consider the altered scale, whole tone scale, diminished scales, etc.

 

[Scott Lynch]

Re: chord progressions - do you play any guitar and or piano/keyboard? The more time I spend playing & studying chordal instruments, the better my sense of harmony seems to become.

 

[Lammchop93]

My gateway into understanding music theory was learning the modes of the major scale. From there you can quickly get to understanding chord construction, and what makes a chord diatonic to a given key. From there you can very quickly begin to more clearly understand chord progressions and be able to speak more clearly with other musicians. In my experience, having those elements nailed down is a HUGE step above many of your peers in terms of being an effective musician across a variety of genres and settings.

How did you go about learning them?

 

[Lammchop93]

Re: chord progressions - do you play any guitar and or piano/keyboard? The more time I spend playing & studying chordal instruments, the better my sense of harmony seems to become.

I dabble on guitar, but the same just playing along to songs. Nothing that explains the "why" behind what I am playing

 

[silky smoove]

How did you go about learning them?

Years and years ago there was this document floating around the internet called Wheat's Bass Book. Imagine my surprise when I just found that it still exists and is being updated! Wheat's BassBook 6.0: A Comprehensive Method & Resource for the Electric Bass Guitar

A guitarist taught me the major scale when I was first starting out. I learned the major scale in all keys, which admittedly at the time I did simply by memorizing the pattern and moving it around the fretboard. From that little piece of information, I dug into the modes section of the Wheat's Bass Book. From there I learned about chord construction. Suddenly I could take a major scale and apply the first, third and fifth scale degrees to construct a major triad. One day, with no prompting or external education I wondered what would happen if I did that with the modes of the major scale. I tried it on the second mode (Dorian). The third was flat of where it is on the major scale. Making another leap I wondered if the second mode and the 2 chord of a scale shared anything. Eureka! I suddenly knew what guitarists were talking about when they said "It's a 1 4 5 in B" or "It's a 2 5 1 in Eb" or "it's a 1 5 6 4 in F#." I could find the key center and work out the chords by matching the scale degree to a root note, matching the chord number to the mode degree, and from a basic knowledge of constructing triads I'd be able to have a basic but functionally competent vocabulary to work with. It's expanded significantly from there, but that was the pivotal moment where things really clicked in a functional (i.e. not just academic) way.

 

[Lammchop93]

Thank you all for the input so far! I am going to digest some of this tonight and come up with next steps

 

[mambo4]

whenever I don’t know what to practice the answer is usually reading

 

[Lammchop93]

whenever I don’t know what to practice the answer is usually reading

Reading sheet music. Or reading music education material?

 

[SC Bassboy]

Study the circle of 5ths, use a metronome and LEARN INTERVALS. Once you intuitively know the relationship between notes on a scale (intervals) you will essentially be able to find the root note and play the chord progressions by ear. I'm sure other people are going to give you really good, technical advice so I will also suggest one of my more eccentric practice methods.... play blindfolded or in a dark room. That became part of my practice routine when I started playing fretless bass. Training your ears to know where the fretting hand is without looking is a super power that most of us never bother to learn, much less master. The last 30 years would have been much more gentle on my neck if I hadn't been staring down at a fretboard for thousands of hours. I'm not kidding about intervals, either. Practice your intervals! Also... drink more water. It's good for you.

 

[dmrogers]

I applaud your desire to learn more.
I would encourage you to, wherever you start, try to keep it digestible. Start slow, and go forward when you feel like what you are currently learning makes sense.
Where to start? There are so many places to start.
Personally, I think it is important to know all of the chords in each key. It is much easier to learn (or play with others) when you know the chords in each key.
Once you know all of the keys, you can become familiar with what people call the "money chords". There are tons of songs out there that use the same chord progression. When you know them, it is much easier to figure out a song.
Learning theory is, in my opinion, very important. You can find a lot of material on this site that addresses theory. The link that @mambo4 has in his signature is a good place to start.
Once you get comfortable with all of that, reading is always something you work on.
Good luck!

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I've been playing bass for around 20 years. From a technical standpoint, I feel like I can play just about any song that I am asked to learn. However I don't know how to practice other than just jamming along with recorded songs.

I want to grow as a musician and a bass player, and would like some guidance on what and how to practice.

What I feel comfortable with:
-Major and Minor scale
-Technical ability to play
-Playing with a band
-Memorizing Songs to play in a gig setting

What I struggle with:
-Hearing a chord progression and know what it is. I feel like I have to poke around the fretboard to find what I am hearing vs recognizing patterns
-Any type of improv. I tend to just stick to box patterns on the fretboard


I know I want to improve my struggle items, but quite frankly I don't know how to get better at these. Any advice?

Sounds like you have the basics down pretty well. On the list of struggles, are those two separate struggles or are the two of those combined is one issue? The reason I ask is I don’t understand how you can memorize a song without being able to follow a chord progression?

Further we don’t know what type for music you are playing. For instance high level jazz can be very difficult to follow progression where as basic 50s’ rock that consists of mainly 1-4-5 (of a major scale) progressions is fairly easy to understand. As a 70+ year old I could write a book on how many ways to make 1-4-5 chord changes sound logical.

 

[Lammchop93]

Sounds like you have the basics down pretty well. On the list of struggles, are those two separate struggles or are the two of those combined is one issue? The reason I ask is I don’t understand how you can memorize a song without being able to follow a chord progression?

Further we don’t know what type for music you are playing. For instance high level jazz can be very difficult to follow progression where as basic 50s’ rock that consists of mainly 1-4-5 (of a major scale) progressions is fairly easy to understand. As a 70+ year old I could write a book on how many ways to make 1-4-5 chord changes sound logical.

I am generally a rock and county bassist. I do like metal too, but the gigs I play are in the rock/country world.

As for my struggles, when I say memorize I mean that I just can remember a song starts on a certain note and I know what comes next. but I don't really think about it as "ok this song is a 1,3,5" or whatever. It's like a muscle memory thing without understand the reasoning behind it...if that makes any sense at all

 

[wompwomp]

I've been playing bass for around 20 years. From a technical standpoint, I feel like I can play just about any song that I am asked to learn. However I don't know how to practice other than just jamming along with recorded songs.

I want to grow as a musician and a bass player, and would like some guidance on what and how to practice.

What I feel comfortable with:
-Major and Minor scale
-Technical ability to play
-Playing with a band
-Memorizing Songs to play in a gig setting

What I struggle with:
-Hearing a chord progression and know what it is. I feel like I have to poke around the fretboard to find what I am hearing vs recognizing patterns
-Any type of improv. I tend to just stick to box patterns on the fretboard


I know I want to improve my struggle items, but quite frankly I don't know how to get better at these. Any advice?

some really great advice in this threak, you might click with CAGED system maybe worth looking up

 

[logdrum]

Improvising is overrated. If you are being hired - you are better than a lot of us armchair bassist on TB. But then again gigging is also overrated unless that is your means of livelihood

If you want to do pit work for musical then learn to sight read.

IMO opinion you are actually in a very good place

 

[pb9717]

I’ve experienced 40+ years of playing. I was not a hobbyist during that time. I worked a 40 hour job in manhattan AND as a live musician in NYC for 25+ years doing sideman, club dates, small amount of jingle work, but essentially working side by side with college educated full time pro’s. Broadway guys, cats termed as Muthaf&^%’s in new York. The guys i played with worked for Enrique Eglesias, Jose Feliciano, Smokey Robinson, Debbie Harry, Gavin Degraw, Bette Midler, among others. The kinda gigs where if you didnt cut it, you were gone. I enjoyed great success and loved the gigs. Yet, I too, couldn’t solo well, ( the gig NEVER required extensive solong) and I never got my vocabulary where I wanted it to be on the instrument.

Fast forward to now. I opt to finally take 1 on 1 private lessons. My teacher, a local symphony upright guy, full on Jazz upright, and electric player tells me that virtually every adult player that he has, thats been gigging for decades has the exact same story that you describe. Why? Because they don’t pay the bass player to solo, they pay him to lay down a phat groove, locked in the pocket with the drummer. With clear punchy sound, and no drama. if you can do that, you’ll work till your dead.

But god forbid they call “rhythm changes” , and ask you to “take one!”….that is when everything comes crashing down.

So know, your situation is more status quo than not.

Regarding your path….gonna say what others may have already said. Get a teacher, tell em your story. See where it goes. Learning to read is not gonna make you become a monster soloist. BUT it’ll open up a large library of licks and provide access to huge amounts of written examples of what the masters did. Its a great thing to know. But I found, working with so many pros, that its the ear that makes the player. And not just knowing how to read.

But the quick answer. Find a teacher, a mentor. Now you can start the a new “best online instruction site” thread. Good Luck, and godspeed.

 

[bass player 53]

I think everyone has made good
suggestions so far.

What is not clear to me is what
type (genre, style) of music are
you typically playing?

Do you recognize the basic chord
types, major, major 7th,minor, dominant 7th, diminished, augmented? Can you
recognize them with a piano and
guitar playing them?

Do you hear basic blues chord
progressions?

If you listen to basic country music,
at a reasonable tempo, do you hear
the chord progressions, not playing
along, but in your head away from
the bass?

Good music for this is by groups
such as The Eagles and many
classic groups of this type.

Basic chord types can be learned
by playing basic guitar or piano,
or looking at YouTube on how to
do this. You will hear what they
sound like.

Recognizing chord movement
involves listening to a song, section
by section, again away from your
bass and then confirming what
you are hearing.

If you write down the chord changes
to a reasonable amount of songs,
you will see patterns in the chord
movements, the so-called,
1-4, 1-4-5, 1-6-2-5, 2-5-1, etc.,
where 1 is the key that the song is
in.
Being able to do this skill away from
the bass, and recognizing the chord
type is basic and essential ear training.

Start with simple songs containing
only a few chord changes at slow
to medium tempos, and see how
it goes.

 

[pbass2]

Learning all the theory you can is of course excellent, as is learning to read. Piano/keys of course are a great way to learn harmony, etc.
As for being able to identify chords, changes, etc when listening to music, I suggest learning to write down numbers charts for the tunes you're learning. You don't have to go all Nashville fancy with it (some of them are quite detailed), but thinking in terms of numbers/intervals rather than note names goes a long way to being able to "hear" changes (and you'll get to where you can write out a chart when listening to a tune without your bass in hand which is very cool). Bonus is once you learn to think this way you can easily transpose a song on your bass to any key.