I Don't What to Practice (or how to)

[logdrum]

I am generally a rock and county bassist. I do like metal too, but the gigs I play are in the rock/country world.

As for my struggles, when I say memorize I mean that I just can remember a song starts on a certain note and I know what comes next. but I don't really think about it as "ok this song is a 1,3,5" or whatever. It's like a muscle memory thing without understand the reasoning behind it...if that makes any sense at all

Learn the Nashville numbering system. As for solos -- You can do scalalr like pentatonic , learn minor, major scales and mixolydian scales and you are off to the races. The remember riff makes the solo meaning the rhythm. Then leanr to solo over chord tones and to simplify this the most powerful chords tones are the 3 and 7. Then learn II, V, I turn arounds and you make this interesting by altering the 2 and the V7 chord notes. Add a little chromatic tones and you are on your way, And remember the blues. Of course that can take a year or years but it really is not that complex, The diminished scale will be the icing to provide tension and simply make it interesting. This is just not for jazz only jazz musicians think they are the only one doing it,

BUT always play on time. Never falter on your time however beginner or advanced you are. Play with Joy and if it's the blues - remember it's about a good man feeling bad -- if that is your foundation then your soul will connect to your listener.

 

[mambo4]

Reading sheet music. Or reading music education material?

Reading standard notation, sheet music. chord charts. lead sheets. clefs, bar lines, repeat signs D.C. al codas all that. NOT tab.
But for bassists, especially rhythm. I like this pdf. and practice with it a couple time a week.

Sight reading I suppose is the long term goal, but I'm not there yet.
However for me benefits have already accumulated and improved my musicianship
I would say it has made me a better player.

Regarding theory: There are many rabbit holes in theory to get stuck in. But I think useful theory follows the 20/80 rule, where 80% of the usefulness lies in only 20% of music theory. And that 20% is, specifically Functional Harmony ( aka Nashville numbers, aka Roman numeral ( I - IV - V etc ) chords aka harmonizing the major/minor scale aka how chords and progressions work. To learn that you must learn

• the 12 intervals
• how the intervals construct a major and minor scale
• how a major and minor scale can construct a related group of seven chords
• what chord cadences are

As mentioned the Basic Theory PDF linked in my sig spells this out pretty nicely.

 

[Geogio]

"Miles Davis viewed practicing as a rigorous, lifelong pursuit of personal expression rather than just technical exercise, emphasizing that "first you imitate, then you innovate". He insisted on intense study, often practicing for years to refine his sound, and encouraged using the bandstand for real-time creation.

• No Shortcuts: Davis rejected the idea of musical talent as a "natural" accident, stating, "You have to practice and you have to study".
• Innovate Through Study: He advocated for studying masters first, then developing your own voice, famously saying, "Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself".
• Practice on the Bandstand: Instead of traditional rehearsals, Davis often had his band learn and create in front of an audience, encouraging them to not "lean on what you know".
• Emphasize Space and Phrasing: He focused on using rests, suggesting a technique of alternating between playing and resting to improve phrasing.
• Listen and Interact: He stressed listening to other band members during solos to create unity.
• Negative Practice: He believed in practicing with a positive mindset, warning that "If you practice with negativity, you are embedding negativity into those notes".

Essentially, for Davis, practice was about deep self-discovery and finding one's own voice." - Antonio Incaviglia

 

[BassicJazzy]

Lots of great ideas above. I would go with Lobster's suggestion as a first step. Best way to break out of the box is to not see a box. Learn the intervals and their relationships across the fretboard, approaching them from below, from above, from two strings over, etc. If you play up a scale using one pattern play down using a different fingering. Break the scales into intervals of 3rds, and 5ths, then 6ths. Play your scales in those intervals. Play the notes between the intervals, back to your starting note, as you move up or down the pattern. Play two octave scales. When you run out of room in either direction, substitute the octave above or below to continue. Do this for awhile and you'll break out of the box.

 

[bass player 53]

I think we’re losing site of what the
OP is asking for help with, that is

“What I struggle with:

• Hearing a chord progression and know what it is. I feel like I have to poke around the fretboard to find what I am hearing vs recognizing patterns
• Any type of improv. I tend to just stick to box patterns on the fretboard”

Hearing a chord progression has
little to nothing to do with the fretboard.
Recognizing patterns has little to
nothing to do with the fretboard.
Improvising has little to nothing
to do with the fretboard.

Ear training, chord type recognition,
and melodic invention, ie making
up melodic variations of the melody
is what he is asking help with.

Ok, so listen to ‘Crazy’, with Willie
Nelson, in C.

C chord for 4 beats. Steps chromatically down to A7.
Next chord D minor. D minor
small drop to A7, back to D minor.
Moves to G7, and back to C.

You don’t necessarily have to hear
away from the bass that the tune is
is C, but away from the bass, you
should hear the chord progression.

The bridge goes to F. Can you hear
that, away from the bass?

Write down what you are hearing
in this way. Check it with your bass.

You should be able to practice and
hear the chord type and movement
of the chords from one to the next
(intervals).
When you write down the chord
chart, you can understand and
recognize chord movement, patterns
of chord movement, and why groups
of chord progressions sound the way
they do.

Every good musician should be able
to do this fundamental thing.

 

[Lammchop93]

Reading standard notation, sheet music. chord charts. lead sheets. clefs, bar lines, repeat signs D.C. al codas all that. NOT tab.
But for bassists, especially rhythm. I like this pdf. and practice with it a couple time a week.

Sight reading I suppose is the long term goal, but I'm not there yet.
However for me benefits have already accumulated and improved my musicianship
I would say it has made me a better player.

Regarding theory: There are many rabbit holes in theory to get stuck in. But I think useful theory follows the 20/80 rule, where 80% of the usefulness lies in only 20% of music theory. And that 20% is, specifically Functional Harmony ( aka Nashville numbers, aka Roman numeral ( I - IV - V etc ) chords aka harmonizing the major/minor scale aka how chords and progressions work. To learn that you must learn

• the 12 intervals
• how the intervals construct a major and minor scale
• how a major and minor scale can construct a related group of seven chords
• what chord cadences are

As mentioned the Basic Theory PDF linked in my sig spells this out pretty nicely.

This to me seems like what I need. Intervals seem like a logical next step for me.

 

[Lammchop93]

I think we’re losing site of what the
OP is asking for help with, that is

“What I struggle with:

• Hearing a chord progression and know what it is. I feel like I have to poke around the fretboard to find what I am hearing vs recognizing patterns
• Any type of improv. I tend to just stick to box patterns on the fretboard”

Hearing a chord progression has
little to nothing to do with the fretboard.
Recognizing patterns has little to
nothing to do with the fretboard.
Improvising has little to nothing
to do with the fretboard.

Ear training, chord type recognition,
and melodic invention, ie making
up melodic variations of the melody
is what he is asking help with.

Ok, so listen to ‘Crazy’, with Willie
Nelson, in C.

C chord for 4 beats. Steps chromatically down to A7.
Next chord D minor. D minor
small drop to A7, back to D minor.
Moves to G7, and back to C.

You don’t necessarily have to hear
away from the bass that the tune is
is C, but away from the bass, you
should hear the chord progression.

The bridge goes to F. Can you hear
that, away from the bass?

Write down what you are hearing
in this way. Check it with your bass.

You should be able to practice and
hear the chord type and movement
of the chords from one to the next
(intervals).
When you write down the chord
chart, you can understand and
recognize chord movement, patterns
of chord movement, and why groups
of chord progressions sound the way
they do.

Every good musician should be able
to do this fundamental thing.

Thank you! Listening to this, it's obvious to me I am struggling to follow with what they are doing, poking around the fretboard trying to find the right notes.

 

[bass player 53]

Thank you! Listening to this, it's obvious to me I am struggling to follow with what they are doing, poking around the fretboard trying to find the right notes.

You’re welcome.

I jam with a few guys every week,
keyboard, bass, guitar, drums.
We’re all old geezers () and
start by asking Siri to play the old
songs that we grew up on.
We have no music, but after one
or two listens, we’re all able to
play the songs pretty well. They’re
not songs by prog. rock, or Steely
Dan (which we all like), but 50’s
through 70’s rock, Doobie Brothers,
Billy Joel, Stones, etc.
I’m hoping that you can practice the
ear training things that I’ve
outlined. It’s about hearing the
interval progression, in your head,
away from the instrument.
I can’t overemphasize how important
this skill is. It’s never too late to
development it.
People say “he or she has ‘big ears’.”
This is what they’re talking about.

Improvisation is another skill. It
is ‘fast or ‘spontaneous’ composition,
and can be practiced as well, using
simple tunes and simple melodies.
Variations on a theme, if you will.

 

[mambo4]

Intervals seem like a logical next step for me.

The names can be a bit con fusing at first, but there's only 12
Working things out on a piano can help clarify the organization

 

[aarono2690]

Amazing thread of information gold. Good luck OP!

 

[oren]

I try to conceive my practice sessions as two parts: technique and repertoire (plus transcribing, which I think of as separate from practice). I pretty much practice upright exclusively, but I don’t think that makes a difference for this discussion. In case it’s of interest, here’s what I do these days.

I work on technique to improve my comfort and facility across all ranges of the instrument. I try to always: play a one octave chromatic scale on the G string up and down with the metronome set at 60, starting with one note per beat, then two, then three, etc up to six notes per beat, concentrating on keeping them even and making the transitions smoothly; two octave major scales up and down in all twelve keys around the cycle of fourths (I got comfortable doing them up and back down, then my teacher said “play them descending first”and I couldn’t, so that’s one thing I’m working on now); two octave 7th arpeggios in all keys (I alternate, one day major, the next day minor, the third day dominant); all the modes of a single major scales, two octaves, choosing a different scale every day. Other things I work on, but not as regularly as I should include playing the scales in thirds, triads, and seventh arpeggios (and my teacher wants me to do 9th and 13th arpeggios too) both in regular order (C, E, D, F, etc.) and in alternating order (C, E, F, D, E, G, A, F, etc).

For repertoire I work on taking a tune and learning it by memory (see @Ed Fuqua’s excellent post Really Learning A Tune), which for me means learning to play the melody as well as the chord changes and any specific bass lines, and figuring out different ways to navigate through the chords.

There’s always more to practice than I have time or energy for, but I can sure tell the difference when I get on a gig whether or not I’ve been practicing regularly!

 

[Vincent Van Low]

get a steady gig at a church or elsewhere its a slightly forgiving environment. You already know the major scale. It is all within that scale. the minor scale is just the flattened 3rd. Learn to associate a number to the scale. 1-7, then you will understand when the Band Leader says this is a ii, V, I in Bb, you dont even have to think about it...you move the major scale root note starting position to Bb, and LISTEN then play. It seems you are way way overthinking. Play like Ray Charles, not with your eyes, but ONLY with you ears. If you practice for a hour a two a day, eyes clinched tight, you will be HEARING the chord changes withing a month. Good luck, BTW just have fun with it, all your "improvising fear" goes away when you know your scales, just the major and minor. same scale, 1 note slightly different.....way way way simpler than people make it out.

 

[fearceol]

I want to grow as a musician and a bass player, and would like some guidance on what and how to practice.

Chord Tones Are Primary | StudyBass

Make learning chord patterns your priority.

www.studybass.com

CHORD TONES are indeed primary for bass players.

In my opinion this site will get you off to an excellent start.

 

[BismarckHerring]

Since you mentioned fills and that’s the main area where I’m trying to improve, here are a couple of things that have helped me so far (I still have a long way to go, but I’m improving):

• Start simple, with the major and minor pentatonic scales (nothing wrong with using box patterns). Don’t focus on fancy notes, but on staying in the groove and landing on the root of the next chord using up-/downward motion or by moving from the fifth of the target chord to the root. This, to me, is the basis of every good fill.
• Once you’re comfortable with that, learn how to extend the pentatonic scales. The blues scales are a good place to start. For example, when you’re in A minor or C major, play d#-e instead of the pentatonic d-e when going up, and play eb-d instead of e-d when going down. This, and other ways to use the blue notes, can add some flavor. The Phrygian and Dorian modes (which, like the major and natural minor scales, can be seen as the pentatonic scales plus two extra notes) are also very useful in blues, rock, soul, funk, etc.
• Transcribe cool licks that you hear and analyze them: what scales do they use? How do they relate to the ‘from’ and ‘to’ chords? Do they use chromatic notes? Etc. (Don’t be surprised if many cool licks turn out to use ‘just’ the pentatonic scales) You can use an app to loop and slow down the music if necessary (I use this browser extension). You can also search for transcriptions, but I always try to work it out myself first. After all, you want to play what’s in your head, and transcribing is the best way to practice that IMO.
• Keep experimenting, playing around with different scales and if you stumble on something good, repeat it and/or write it down. Note the context in which it works (drum pattern, chord progression). And never lose sight of staying in the groove and landing on the root of the next chord.

 

[Chadwick Salls]

Learn arpeggios (1-3-5-7-9 of EVERY chord in the song), and try not to start on the root each time (inversions are your friend!). Listen to the groove of "Blood And Roses" by The Smithereens as an example of how to be inventive with simple arpeggios. Also, work on arpeggios and pentatonic notes BELOW your root note. When my students play a C major, they always play C and the E and G above it, and sometimes it can sound hokey. If you play C and the low E and G below it, it sounds more Motown and groove-based, even though you are playing melodic. Another fun exercise is to work on chords that are repetitive and start playing their inversions for tension. Say the chords are F to G over and over. Try to keep walking up a scale like F G F/A G/B F/C G/D, etc. Two good examples of this are "Radio Radio" by Elvis Costello and the Attractions and "Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic" by The Police. Good luck and have fun with it!

 

[BassicJazzy]

Since you mentioned fills and that’s the main area where I’m trying to improve, here are a couple of things that have helped me so far (I still have a long way to go, but I’m improving):

• Start simple, with the major and minor pentatonic scales (nothing wrong with using box patterns). Don’t focus on fancy notes, but on staying in the groove and landing on the root of the next chord using up-/downward motion or by moving from the fifth of the target chord to the root. This, to me, is the basis of every good fill.
• Once you’re comfortable with that, learn how to extend the pentatonic scales. The blues scales are a good place to start. For example, when you’re in A minor or C major, play d#-e instead of the pentatonic d-e when going up, and play eb-d instead of e-d when going down. This, and other ways to use the blue notes, can add some flavor. The Phrygian and Dorian modes (which, like the major and natural minor scales, can be seen as the pentatonic scales plus two extra notes) are also very useful in blues, rock, soul, funk, etc.
• Transcribe cool licks that you hear and analyze them: what scales do they use? How do they relate to the ‘from’ and ‘to’ chords? Do they use chromatic notes? Etc. (Don’t be surprised if many cool licks turn out to use ‘just’ the pentatonic scales) You can use an app to loop and slow down the music if necessary (I use this browser extension). You can also search for transcriptions, but I always try to work it out myself first. After all, you want to play what’s in your head, and transcribing is the best way to practice that IMO.
• Keep experimenting, playing around with different scales and if you stumble on something good, repeat it and/or write it down. Note the context in which it works (drum pattern, chord progression). And never lose sight of staying in the groove and landing on the root of the next chord.

Yes, and that's why many players find they can get by on just the pentatonic and blues scales. They call them "utility scales" for a reason. The best teacher I've seen for pentatonic and how to stretch it is Rich Brown, on his Brown'sTone YouTube channel.

For fills, even though he has gotten a lot of shade thrown at him recently on TB, Scott's Bass Lessons has a really good free lesson on how to spice up your fills. Simple ideas that you might not immediately think of, like resting on the first beat, etc. How to vary the phrasing.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

I've been playing bass for around 20 years. From a technical standpoint, I feel like I can play just about any song that I am asked to learn. However I don't know how to practice other than just jamming along with recorded songs.

I want to grow as a musician and a bass player, and would like some guidance on what and how to practice.

What I feel comfortable with:
-Major and Minor scale
-Technical ability to play
-Playing with a band
-Memorizing Songs to play in a gig setting

What I struggle with:
-Hearing a chord progression and know what it is. I feel like I have to poke around the fretboard to find what I am hearing vs recognizing patterns
-Any type of improv. I tend to just stick to box patterns on the fretboard


I know I want to improve my struggle items, but quite frankly I don't know how to get better at these. Any advice?

Some clarifying comments people were asking:
I play rock primarily (modern and classic), and some country
-I don't really have a need/desire to solo. I just want to be able to improv fills and basslines to carry the song

I'd say learn melodies in whatever register you can reasonably play them. Vocals. Sax. Guitar. Seasonal jingles. Commercial and TV/Movie theme songs. It seems to me "bass playing" really isn't generally a problem for you. Also work on ear training in a couple different ways. Find play along things that don't have the bass part that allows you to create your own and which you can change keys of the songs at will or has examples with different keys. Get a Real Book (Jazz Fakebook or similar) and apps where you can play along to these songs. Even if you don't want to play Jazz, approaching this music to at least develop your ear due to more complex chord changes that you will navigate, and which will help develop your ear and application to the fretboard even if technically it's not in a place you want to go musically.

When I've taught people, I ALWAYS take time in the lessons to help players with their ears, and to help build musicality and intuition not to just play some lick or part like the record as a bass player, but to make them better MUSICIANS. One thing I did was play a string of 3-4 chords (on guitar or piano), and I asked the student to clarify the quality of each chord (major, minor, diminished, etc...) as well as make some determination as to the relationships between each chord, but... they can't look at my fretboard or keypad or fish around on theirs... at least to start. It's really all about the ear training in this case.

 

[Lammchop93]

I'd say learn melodies in whatever register you can reasonably play them. Vocals. Sax. Guitar. Seasonal jingles. Commercial and TV/Movie theme songs. It seems to me "bass playing" really isn't generally a problem for you. Also work on ear training in a couple different ways. Find play along things that don't have the bass part that allows you to create your own and which you can change keys of the songs at will or has examples with different keys. Get a Real Book (Jazz Fakebook or similar) and apps where you can play along to these songs. Even if you don't want to play Jazz, approaching this music to at least develop your ear due to more complex chord changes that you will navigate, and which will help develop your ear and application to the fretboard even if technically it's not in a place you want to go musically.

When I've taught people, I ALWAYS take time in the lessons to help players with their ears, and to help build musicality and intuition not to just play some lick or part like the record as a bass player, but to make them better MUSICIANS. One thing I did was play a string of 3-4 chords (on guitar or piano), and I asked the student to clarify the quality of each chord (major, minor, diminished, etc...) as well as make some determination as to the relationships between each chord, but... they can't look at my fretboard or keypad or fish around on theirs... at least to start. It's really all about the ear training in this case.

Thanks for this. Any idea of a tool or website that I can use to hear chords and then "test" myself to determine the quality of the cord? and then check to see if I am right? Ear development is definitely something I want to work on

 

[mambo4]

This looks promising. Frist episode in a series. It also (very quickly) summarizes the theory I mentioned.
Covers the simplest basics: I, V, IV.



The important thing to remember is you are learning a relative pattern of chord progressions and not specific chord progressions.
The progression I- IV -V can be in any of 12 keys. All of these are a I - IV -V in various keys:
C - F - G
A - D - E
Bb - Eb - F

They all will have a similar sound, just starting at different places ( "tonic chords" ).

Learning to recognize these generalized progression and then translate them into specific keys is the challenge you should pursue. foir example:

• What specific chords form a I - IV - V in the key of F?
• What specific chords form a I - vi - ii -V7 in the key of G?
• etc

The good news is: of all possible ear training, recognizing chord progressions is the easiest to pick up.
At least it was for me.

( fyi: Capitalized roman numerals usually = Major chords, lower case = minor.)

 

[KenSmithFan]

Get a good teacher, through referrals, and take lessons. A good teacher will jump start your progress. You don’t know what you don’t know. A teacher provides feedback and will help you to identify what needs work.