I know a lot solos, especially Bach's cello suites, are mainly straight 8ths and 16ths. I enjoy listening to them, but when it comes to learning them... It seems like I have no will to just play straight notes without rhythm variations. My teacher thinks I'm crazy. Perhaps I'm approaching these solos the wrong way? He wants me to learn things like Bach's Prelude from 1st cello suite and Bourree from the 3rd. I've got the talent to do it, I just don't have the willpower... I really want to learn them but they bore me to death. What's wrong with me?
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Double Bass I find playing solos boring.
- Thread starter moopants
- Start date
Sounds like the classical stuff is not inspiring you. Maybe you should take a different direction with your lessons.
Learning Bach is 1% knowing the notes and 99% interpretation. If you start messing around with inflection, articulation etc. I bet you'll find more fun in it. Interpretation of solo lit. is a lifelong endeavor. Or maybe you should stop playing solos. I'd rather play excerpts any day. But solos are essential to learning how to play orchestral lit like a person and not a machine. YMMV.
Should I just work with rubato on the pieces that are straight notes? I don't mind playing solos with rhythm changes at all.
its not just about rubato...its about feeling the music and putting some emotion into it. just because they're made up of primarily straight 8ths or 16ths doesn't mean anything. you have to make it your own. take the notes and turn it into music
It sounds like you haven't understood the suites yet.
Try it playing in even tempo but making the shape of the lines sound out with articulation.
The Bach suites may be written as even series of notes, but in fact there are multiple implied parts within those series, which have their own rhythms (some of them quite complex) which you can bring out with articulation and accents. Try to discover those.
Try it playing in even tempo but making the shape of the lines sound out with articulation.
The Bach suites may be written as even series of notes, but in fact there are multiple implied parts within those series, which have their own rhythms (some of them quite complex) which you can bring out with articulation and accents. Try to discover those.
here's the thing....
you like playing pieces with 'rhythms'.... and rhythms--- or rhythmic patterns-- are really like little microscopic phrases. They could be that way because they are phrases that are very short-- only a few notes; or longer--- more notes, but time compressed so that they go by very quickly.
what you need to do is fnd the rhythmic pattern in the bach--- lets say the prelude. when you do find it youll notice that the pattern can happen by the half bar, by the whole bar, or over many bars.... then it becomes up to you which one, some, or all of these rhythms you want to bring out..... which can be pretty cool.
you like playing pieces with 'rhythms'.... and rhythms--- or rhythmic patterns-- are really like little microscopic phrases. They could be that way because they are phrases that are very short-- only a few notes; or longer--- more notes, but time compressed so that they go by very quickly.
what you need to do is fnd the rhythmic pattern in the bach--- lets say the prelude. when you do find it youll notice that the pattern can happen by the half bar, by the whole bar, or over many bars.... then it becomes up to you which one, some, or all of these rhythms you want to bring out..... which can be pretty cool.
I agree with your teacher, first learn to play the notes, then expand on it. If you can't find in passion with Bach, I don't know.
I think I'm starting to catch on now. I heard my teacher play the Bourree, and it sounded like they may have been some slight rhythm changes. The phrase-work is the same as any other solo, there just aren't any rests. Ahh... time to go work on some Bach!
Don't forget- there's no accompaniment at all, just you and the instrument. Bach left almost no information at all regarding interpretation. Just play them, enjoy them, and see what happens. No two people play them the same, and no one plays them the same twice.
Check out different recordings of the cello suites too. I have suites 1-3 played by Pablo Casals, and two albums with the complete suites, one played by Paul Tortelier and the other by Yuli Turovsky. I have to get 4-6 by Pablo Casals, and eventually get Rostropovich's recording of them. It's great to listen to all these different versions to hear how each musician interprets them, as well as to get some ideas of your own!
I didn't study classical bass in school, but I've always been into learning about that side of the bass/music. A good friend of mine who plays tenor used to take, say the prelude of suite #1, and break the 16th notes into groups 5, 6, and 7. I tried this too, and it still kicks my ass! But it really helps me to relax with the music and be more free with it.
I didn't study classical bass in school, but I've always been into learning about that side of the bass/music. A good friend of mine who plays tenor used to take, say the prelude of suite #1, and break the 16th notes into groups 5, 6, and 7. I tried this too, and it still kicks my ass! But it really helps me to relax with the music and be more free with it.
when working on Bach, it's not really "rhythm changes" that you should be thinking about. The rhythm is always going to be the same, whatever Bach wrote. What you get to think about is dynamics, line, inflection, things like that. You can put an "accent" on a note by taking time on it, perhaps holding a bit longer than it technically should be held. You can also lead to a note by slightly increasing tempo on the few notes preceding it. It shouldn't really be considered changing the rhythm, rather it's an artistic choice to "move forward" or "hold back." Listening to recordings of great players (cello or bass) is always a great idea to get inspiration.
From what it sounds like every time I read this is that you want to jam. My question is do you even like the suites when you listen to them? Or anything you play???? If not, then you may be in the wrong alley.
the metronome work is always a bit boring, but that's practice for you. just keep in mind that you have to lay a technical foundation before you can really turn it into music. but bach is intense, man. bach is the work of a lifetime. more than any other composer I can think of, there is a vast gap between being able to play the notes, and being able to play the piece well.
I've heard the cello suites played hundreds of times by dozens of bass players, they're required rep for lord knows how many auditions, I've been playing them myself for almost the entire 20 years I've been playing bass, and-- I kid you not-- I am typing these words as I take a break from practicing suite 2. the reason they are so ubiquitous in bass players' rep is, for one thing, how you play them will show every flaw in your technique, and provide a window into your entire approach to the instrument. but it's also because if you've got them nailed they are so beautiful, and so deep. by giving just a little weight to a note here and there, you can bring out whole new melodies that bach hid in those straight 16ths, and by letting the right notes ring a bit, you can outline chords and harmonize like an entire string quartet. two different players, using the exact same music, will play completely different pieces.
but first! you gotta grind it out with that metronome, and metronome bach is incredibly boring. so you really should track down a recording or two for inspiration. doubtless your teacher is an excellent musician, but chances are he can't play as well as yo-yo ma or mstislav rostropovich. I actually keep ma's 1983 double-cd set cued up when I'm practicing for reference!
sorry for the long post!
I've heard the cello suites played hundreds of times by dozens of bass players, they're required rep for lord knows how many auditions, I've been playing them myself for almost the entire 20 years I've been playing bass, and-- I kid you not-- I am typing these words as I take a break from practicing suite 2. the reason they are so ubiquitous in bass players' rep is, for one thing, how you play them will show every flaw in your technique, and provide a window into your entire approach to the instrument. but it's also because if you've got them nailed they are so beautiful, and so deep. by giving just a little weight to a note here and there, you can bring out whole new melodies that bach hid in those straight 16ths, and by letting the right notes ring a bit, you can outline chords and harmonize like an entire string quartet. two different players, using the exact same music, will play completely different pieces.
but first! you gotta grind it out with that metronome, and metronome bach is incredibly boring. so you really should track down a recording or two for inspiration. doubtless your teacher is an excellent musician, but chances are he can't play as well as yo-yo ma or mstislav rostropovich. I actually keep ma's 1983 double-cd set cued up when I'm practicing for reference!
sorry for the long post!
Remember that all these piece names means dances (gavottes, bourré, ...). Most probably, Bach and his fellow musicians were good dancers themselves. Although Bach's music was mostly not for dancing, it was in the style of the dance myusic of that time.
Perhaps you could try to play the music so the audience will bob their heads and want to dance.
Also try to listen to musicians/orchestras playing the Bach music in a time-typical (baroque) manner (i.e. without a lot of vibrato, with time-typical instruments (gut-strings, ...), with a dance attitude, "swing", ...). An example could be the English Baroque Soloists with conductor John Eliot Gardiner.
BR, Anders
Perhaps you could try to play the music so the audience will bob their heads and want to dance.
Also try to listen to musicians/orchestras playing the Bach music in a time-typical (baroque) manner (i.e. without a lot of vibrato, with time-typical instruments (gut-strings, ...), with a dance attitude, "swing", ...). An example could be the English Baroque Soloists with conductor John Eliot Gardiner.
BR, Anders
Hey Moopants,
why not just drop it altogether. Find works you are ready to enjoy. This is a dialog you have with your mentor/teacher .
there are so many pieves you could spend your time on that are written for the bass.
there may be no other reason for your situation than that you just aren't ready for it. I don't mean not good enough, just not there yet. Asl yourself, "what DO I want to play " and "HOW do I want to play it" .
In time you'll learn your own way.
My 2 cents
why not just drop it altogether. Find works you are ready to enjoy. This is a dialog you have with your mentor/teacher .
there are so many pieves you could spend your time on that are written for the bass.
there may be no other reason for your situation than that you just aren't ready for it. I don't mean not good enough, just not there yet. Asl yourself, "what DO I want to play " and "HOW do I want to play it" .
In time you'll learn your own way.
My 2 cents
Bottesini will be fun but you will have to work to be able to play his stuff. Try the cello suite if you have alot of thumb power and are good at staying in tune.
also try to find any and all Bertram Turetzky pieces. His meditation and dance took me about 5 weeks. Its a really good piece. His stuff will change the way you look at bass.
also try to find any and all Bertram Turetzky pieces. His meditation and dance took me about 5 weeks. Its a really good piece. His stuff will change the way you look at bass.
It's pointless to play Bach on D.Bass if you still have a hard time playing 2 octave scale in tune with a good sound.
I never understood teachers in the States who force their students to play Bach not to mention in Orchestra audition. There are plenty of piecies originaly writen for our instrument that would benefit you more then playing Bach.
I never understood teachers in the States who force their students to play Bach not to mention in Orchestra audition. There are plenty of piecies originaly writen for our instrument that would benefit you more then playing Bach.
There isn't anything crazy about what you're saying. As much as I love playing bach. There are other things I would prefer to do then play the suites. The thing with bach and why it's so standard in so many auditions because when you play bach it's a chance to show your musical ability. Maybe you should consider chamber music? The bach bradenburg concerti are amazing pieces so are the orchestral suites. Of course there is much more out there then those ten pieces. You also just have to find the road that brings out the most passion. I know plenty of people who enjoy classical music but they just love playing music that groups like Blast, or Stomp, or even Alarm will Sound plays. Good luck with your bach! Learning it is never a trip.
E
edspyhill01
Guest
I carry around a soapbox so I can sing the praises of the ABRSM graded system for U.S. students not studying in a conservatory. Right now I'm taking the music theory tests and Classical Guitar exams. I plan to use the ABRSM system/exams for Double Bass - at least the Prep exam.
