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I just got de-friended by Carol Kaye!

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bvdon123

Dec 13, 2009
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#1
I enjoy the music she made in the 60's but when she posted a comment on engineers I voiced my opinion that the mid 70's to early 80's were the pinnacle of recording because of the 24-track two inch tape and the idea of the 'concept album'. I mentioned "Aja", "Goucho", "Breakfast in America", "Back In Black", "Dark Side of the Moon", "Animals", "Rumors", etc. She said she didn't like that "music" -- too many drugs involved in the making.

Post went downhill from there.... but come on, how can any reasonable musician deny the greatness of at least some of the albums mentioned above? She is wacky.
 
#3
I think she doesn't like the idea that she wasn't really a part of that later period of music - at least not of the major artists of that time. She even calls the musicians of that period "newbies"... I'm thinking Steve Gadd, Jeff Porcaro, Chuck Rainey, etc.... a long list of great musicians that easily exceed her talent. Think of Jaco on "Havana" Heavy Weather.... I mean, are they really going to call in someone with Carol Kaye's abilities for a record like that? Or how about Anthony Jackson on "Glamor Profession".... let's get real.
 
#4
The albums you cite have very different aesthetics, and involve very different definitions of what it means to be a "musician", than the tradition of musical literacy and instrumental craft that produced Kaye and her prime creative environment.

I also have a very high opinion of the late-70s-early-80s era of recording, so I'm sympathetic to your position, but Kaye's position seems perfectly reasonable and arguable as well. Especially in light of today, where studio technology has eroded the appetite for true creativity and originality in the marketplace.
 
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#5
bvdon123 said:
I think she doesn't like the idea that she wasn't really a part of that later period of music - at least not of the major artists of that time. She even calls the musicians of that period "newbies"... I'm thinking Steve Gadd, Jeff Porcaro, Chuck Rainey, etc.... a long list of great musicians that easily exceed her talent. Think of Jaco on "Havana" Heavy Weather.... I mean, are they really going to call in someone with Carol Kaye's abilities for a record like that? Or how about Anthony Jackson on "Glamor Profession".... let's get real.
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With respect, you are making a good case for her not considering you a "friend".
 
#7
She made the point that the engineers of the later era often played a bigger role in the sound of the musicians than the musicians... and I agree with that. But all I care about at the end of the day is what does it sound like when played on a high end audio system. I do think the "pop" music arrangements were more complicated later on as well... it came down to taking a longer time to record and having the massive multi-tracks.
 
#8
"With respect, you are making a good case for her not considering you a "friend"."

Indeed... I no longer am after her rant and inability to entertain another persons opinion. Her way or the highway... I take the highway.
 
#10
I know she worked with Quincy Jones early on... but someone please name his definitive work? Does "Off the Wall" come to mind? Or "Thriller"... or how about George Benson "Give Me The Night" ..... loaded with studio "newbies". She lacks reason.
 
#11
Red Four said:
The albums you cite have very different aesthetics, and involve very different definitions of what it means to be a "musician", than the tradition of musical literacy and instrumental craft that produced Kaye and her prime creative environment.
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Musical literacy? All of the guys who played on those Steely Dan albums were pretty "musically literate". :confused:
AS much as I respect Carol's knowledge, experience and talent I often find her stance to be on the dogmatic side. Pity.
 
#12
@bass12... exactly. I specifically mentioned that album too. And that was when she made the comment about "newbies". And she used quotes when she referred to it as that "music".

But even a band like Supertramp... I know they were not super human musicians but the music is pretty flawless and played with great feeling and well composed.
 
#13
bvdon123 said:
Post went downhill from there.... but come on, how can any reasonable musician deny the greatness of at least some of the albums mentioned above? She is wacky.
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i dont really think any of the above albums posses what i consider "Greatness." theyre all very cool, but "great" is the 5th symphony. not dark side of the moon.

just my opinion, and more importantly, nobody is wacky for not thinking the stuff you love is not great. everybody likes what they like.

and not for nothin', but shes more qualified to speak about music than any of us. she was paul mccartneys biggest bass-playing influence. we can't compete with that.
 
#15
groooooove said:
i dont really think any of the above albums posses what i consider "Greatness." theyre all very cool, but "great" is the 5th symphony.
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Well, as great as it is, Beethoven never made me want to dance. If we put the work of Steely Dan (for example) up against any other pop recordings I think a claim of "relative greatness" can be made.

groooooove said:
just my opinion, and more importantly, nobody is wacky for not thinking the stuff you love is not great. everybody likes what they like.
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Maybe, but the inability to recognize talent is as unfortunate as the refusal to admit that something is good simply because it is being played by "newbies".

groooooove said:
and not for nothin', but shes more qualified to speak about music than any of us. she was paul mccartneys biggest bass-playing influence. we can't compete with that.
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That's utter nonsense. She has her experiences and knowledge, but I'm pretty sure there's plenty in the realm of music that many of us here are more qualified to comment on than miss Kaye.
 
#16
How is she more qualified to speak about music? She is more qualified to sit in a chair and do some studio work, but I assure you her opinion of what is good vs bad music is no better than mine.... I have been playing a long time and listen to music from all eras of recorded music. She is strongly biased to a fault.
 
#18
I almost HATE these Carol Kaye threads because a fine musician like Ms. Kaye has (by mostly her own doing), besmerched her own reputation for some reason which I cannot explain by not only claiming credit for tracks she obviously had nothing to do with, to situations like the topic on this thread where she should basically shut the F**K up!
 
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