Double Bass I like Weichs!

[Jim Calhoun]

I recently had an unexpected experience with the Weichs that I thought I'd share.

About a year ago I bought a new bass. It's a big German shop bass, fairly new ('06). When I bought it, it was strung with Spiro Mittels. The Spiros sounded great, but during the past year I've tried a bunch of different strings because.....well, you know.....they were just lying there in the string drawer and....... Anyway, the strings I tried included Dominants, Evah Pirazzi, Obligatos, Superflexibles, and Helicore Hybrids (which were surprisingly good, better than I expected). They all sounded pretty good. During all of this experimentation I kept my string height at about 6-7mm on the G string up to 9-10mm on the E.

Last week I got a wild hair and decided to raise my strings up to 9mm on the G and 12mm on the E. I tried this first with the Spiro Mittels and found that the sound was a little "choked". I then tried a set of Weichs I had lying around and.....lo and behold.....a huge blossoming sound! Louder that the Mittels. Whodathunkit.

I've been experimenting with this setup for the past few days and one thing I've noticed is that the Weichs seem to be more sensitive to right hand placement and articulation than some other strings. I haven't sacrificed any speed with the higher string height, probably due to the Weichs' relatively low tension (no one would ever accuse me of being a speed merchant, though). The higher strings work a little better for slapping, too. I've only played one gig with them so far, but the results were very promising. The pick-up I'm using (Realist) is not the best for high volume playing so I probably won't be able to contribute to that part of the discussion.

Anyway, sorry to be so long winded. Just wanted to share my experience. Looking forward to hearing what others have to say.

 

[Uncletoad]

A couple 2/3 things here... That pick-up may not be the best w. steel.. Full Circle would give you more punch....And third try muting the after length... Spiro's are real bad ringers under the bridge.That may be a big part of your problem. Good Luck...

This is all true. Regardless of the struggles with steel I still agree with Bobby that the tone of Gut strings in a loud mix works better than steel. My problem with Gut is the warble of intonation and the instability in humidity ---plus it doesn't sound right for everything. So two basses are the thing right.

The louder it gets, the more of a pain it is trying to get the "sound in my head" vs. "this will work". Sometimes my Acoustic Baby Bass is a good compromise but at a certain point I am much happier with the sound of my old Fender P with flats. What I lose in upright sound I make up for in tone and volume.

This is also true however I still think the DB loud brings something to the table my Fender doesn't, and that something is very good. Surely good enough to be worth the bother for me and the people who hire me.

 

[damonsmith]

Even really loud I have been able to get a nice warm sound. Personally, beyond EQing I also try to see what can be worked out in my technique. Where you are plucking on the fingerboard, how hard or soft, etc.
When the bass is really over-amped it calls for a different technical approach than when it is acoustic.
On the other hand, having a good unamplified sound is the first step to a good amplified sound.

 

[ctxbass]

Originally Posted by ctxbass
The louder it gets, the more of a pain it is trying to get the "sound in my head" vs. "this will work". Sometimes my Acoustic Baby Bass is a good compromise but at a certain point I am much happier with the sound of my old Fender P with flats. What I lose in upright sound I make up for in tone and volume.

This is also true however I still think the DB loud brings something to the table my Fender doesn't, and that something is very good. Surely good enough to be worth the bother for me and the people who hire me.

I hear you. When it really matters, I'll go with the DB. There are just some gigs where I don't think it matters much.
I've been spoiled with my piano trio gig though; NS Cleveland w/Gamuts on top, volume conscious drummer, no amps or monitors on stage. We can even hear the piano player sing. I go looking for that sound at higher volume gigs and it frustrates me.

 

[Bobby King]

Welcome to my world.

I must admit some perverted glee in your pain.

"The Marquis de Toad" Thanks a bunch!

You have my condolences on a huge pita gig. Been there for sure...

Explain "pita gig" ?

You have explained way better than I the dilemma I've been working with for some time. How do I get an excellent loud gig sound and still have something I can play in tune, in all conditions, small or large venues across many styles?

Well, the Pirastro Pizzicatos generally are working very well for me. I wanted to try the Weichs because they're very easy to play, and they don't have the gut tuning issues. I'm sure I could use the Shen/Weich/Rev Solo combo on a low volume gig. It sounds fine at home through and amp.

I swear it's in there somewhere in some mix of steel and gut. I haven't found it yet though.

Until then, your pain is my pleasure.

 

[Bobby King]

This is also true however I still think the DB loud brings something to the table my Fender doesn't, and that something is very good. Surely good enough to be worth the bother for me and the people who hire me.

Upright has a wider note, a different attack, it makes you play and think differently. And let's face it, lots of people want you to play it because of how it looks!

But all the frigging problems we talk about here are the reasons why the Fender bass was invented. I get to play my Fender for the second half of the Elvis show, channelling Jerry Scheff

 

[Uncletoad]

pita= pain in the ass

 

[Bobby King]

pita= pain in the ass

Ah! An acronym. And a good 'un at that!

 

[Selim]

I don't know what Vitous uses now, but I seem to remember it being a light gauge solo set.
He was featured in BP recently, but I don't have it.[/QUOTE]

Miroslav Vitous used Labellas (forget which ones) in the 80's (check out his solo record "Emergence"). In the 2001 DVD with Chick Corea & Roy Haynes (the "Now He Sings Now He Sobs trio), it appears he had those black tape wounds on. And then I remember him in an interview (maybe about 5 years ago?) referring to the Spirocore Weichs he had on his bass, that they took some getting used ("What, am I playing a cello?")

 

[Eric Hochberg]

hehehehehe.

I think I just felt the world start to spin around in the opposite direction.

Yeah, I just took off the Evahs I've been using all this year and put on a set of Weichs I had on my other bass (Compas 180s now). Wow, less tension (I like it), some zing to the sound (I like it) and a real skinny G string (not too crazy about the feel). Thumb position arco is speaking better, particularly on the D string. More scratchiness than the Evahs, but the brighter pizz tone and growl feels like going home.

We'll see how long this lasts...

 

[jazzbass72]

Proud Weichs user for the past 15 years. Weichs rock. Period.

-Marco

 

[Johnny L]

I really like the Spiro weich's and have advocated spiros as a decent arco string for a while now.

About a month ago, I ratcheted up the tension with Spiro mittels. I'm completely blown away to find out that the mittels bow even better for me than the weiches.

A lot more power and a stronger core sound, as far as I can tell.

 

[moles]

I don't know what Vitous uses now, but I seem to remember it being a light gauge solo set.
He was featured in BP recently, but I don't have it.

I have that issue of BP - it's a little vague, but it says he's using Thomastiks for pizz, Pirastros for arco - both downtuned solo gauge.

 

[Don Higdon]

I recently got a carved LaScala. I strung it with weich G,D, and A, and a mittel E because well, that's what I had in a drawer. Sounds wonderful.

 

[martinc]

Bobby King wrote:
"Upright has a wider note, a different attack, it makes you play and think differently. And let's face it, lots of people want you to play it because of how it looks!

But all the frigging problems we talk about here are the reasons why the Fender bass was invented. "

Bobby: You have just about said it all right there. Beautiful.

 

[john allemond]

Couple of comments. My Upton Hybrid came with Weichs. The E seems weak acoustically but booms with rev pickup. Anybody find weich E weak? Phil I like your comment on upright having that something. I use the upright backing female country singer on Patsy Cline material and she couldnt believe how good it sounded! I told her it was because that was what was on the original recording! She didnt know. But I use fretless electric when my jazz/funk/whatever band does Oleo. We do it with a dance groove and need electric punch. Alot of people find the upright "classy". I agree but need electric also. More work!

 

[Bobby King]

I've also done Patsy shows -- the musicals "Always, Patsy Cline" and "A Closer Walk With Patsy Cline". I love playing that stuff! Practically all her recordings had Bob Moore on upright bass and Bob is a strictly gut-string kind of guy. Now, if you can get a sound you like with Spiros, I wouldn't recommend going over to the dark side of gutstringophilia. But if you have an opportunity to try some guts, or a string like Velvet Garbo, you'll find they sound perfect for that kind of material. Once again, some players and some basses can still get that nice, dark, punchy sound with Spirocores.

 

[Uncletoad]

I've also done Patsy shows -- the musicals "Always, Patsy Cline" and "A Closer Walk With Patsy Cline". I love playing that stuff! Practically all her recordings had Bob Moore on upright bass and Bob is a strictly gut-string kind of guy. Now, if you can get a sound you like with Spiros, I wouldn't recommend going over to the dark side of gutstringophilia. But if you have an opportunity to try some guts, or a string like Velvet Garbo, you'll find they sound perfect for that kind of material. Once again, some players and some basses can still get that nice, dark, punchy sound with Spirocores.

Ahh there its is, the subtle pitch from the Gut string Crack Dealer.

It's the darkest corner of the dark side.

 

[Bobby King]

Ahh there its is, the subtle pitch from the Gut string Crack Dealer.

It's the darkest corner of the dark side.

Hah!

Well, I'm currently on Velvet Animas -- the "Methadone" for Gut Addiction. Takes away the Gut craving. Doesn't pack the same punch, but makes your life more managable.

 

[Whit Townsend]

I've been trying to decide and figure out the diff in tension and flexibility(feel) between Superflexable Solos tuned to standard EADG and Weiches. Ive about decided that if Im gonna keep steels on this Roma ply, I need one or the other.
I know sometimes actual tension and apparent flexibilty/feel do not always correlate.
On this bass, I need adequate tension for volume in my all acoustic bluegrass gigs, but need flex for speed and slappability cause Ive started to play some Rockabilly with an elec guitar and drummer.
Can someone clue me in on the diff between these two?

The only other Tomasticks I've ever played were Spiro Mittels. I know they would sound great for Bluegrass or Country, but are a little too stiff for this Rockabilly thing Ive got comming up.