I love reading through all the amp stuff, and I have a small request.

[Kaa]

When people are saying "You should have X wattage, and Y speakers for Z room."

My question is for, generally speaking, how many people fit in a "Small", a "Medium", and a "Large" room?

Way back when, I used a 200-watt combo (1 x15) with a compact 1 x 15 on top of it for all of my (admittedly small number of) gigs, and never really had it cranked up. The gigs were in a variety of smaller places, so, I can't comment on anything bigger.

Just kind of looking for a rule of thumb on what a room "size" is.

 

[gln1955]

There's not a standard unit involved here. A room comfortably holding 100 people might be considered small by some and large by others, based on their experience.

 

[Kaa]

There's not a standard unit involved here. A room comfortably holding 100 people might be considered small by some and large by others, based on their experience.

Yeah, that I understand, I was just hoping to get a "sorta this big" idea.

 

[klokker]

Weekend warrior here, basic rock and roll dance band. Small to me is a small bar that holds 150 or so people. Medium is that up to a maybe 5,000-7,000 square feet or so. Large is bigger than that up to an outdoor gig.

Makes no difference to me, it's always 600watts into a 2x12. Sometimes there is a PA and a sound person no matter what the room size is, but mostly not. I have some experience with rooms up to about 35,000 square feet, high ceilings etc., and there a sound person runs the show.

It will all be colored by your context. For a big time band 35,000 square feet might be small etc. But that ain't us. The point I would make is that in my experience (35 or so small time gigs a year), my 600 watts into a 2x12 has always been enough no matter the room size, or outdoor gig.

 

[Kaa]

Weekend warrior here, basic rock and roll dance band. Small to me is a small bar that holds 150 or so people. Medium is that up to a maybe 5,000-7,000 square feet or so. Large is bigger than that up to an outdoor gig.

Makes no difference to me, it's always 600watts into a 2x12. Sometimes there is a PA and a sound person no matter what the room size is, but mostly not. I have some experience with rooms up to about 35,000 square feet, high ceilings etc., and there a sound person runs the show.

It will all be colored by your context. For a big time band 35,000 square feet might be small etc. But that ain't us. The point I would make is that in my experience (35 or so small time gigs a year), my 600 watts into a 2x12 has always been enough no matter the room size, or outdoor gig.

Thank you! I waqs just trying to guess at the sizes, so this helps.

 

[gln1955]

Weekend warrior here, basic rock and roll dance band. Small to me is a small bar that holds 150 or so people. Medium is that up to a maybe 5,000-7,000 square feet or so. Large is bigger than that up to an outdoor gig.

Makes no difference to me, it's always 600watts into a 2x12. Sometimes there is a PA and a sound person no matter what the room size is, but mostly not. I have some experience with rooms up to about 35,000 square feet, high ceilings etc., and there a sound person runs the show.

It will all be colored by your context. For a big time band 35,000 square feet might be small etc. But that ain't us. The point I would make is that in my experience (35 or so small time gigs a year), my 600 watts into a 2x12 has always been enough no matter the room size, or outdoor gig.

That sounds very much like my band. I have a 2x12 znd 800 watts at my disposal but for a big room or outdoors, I'd rather keep my stage volume reasonable and let the PA do the heavy lifting.

To the OP, the power needed will very much depend on how loud you need to be, determined by genre, persoal prefernece and what kind of function you are paying.

 

[mikeswals]

If you make 200w and two 15's work, then you're good, no need for anything more.
I can make use of 200w to 350w in most venues I play. Its when I get outside for weddings and 4th of July parties out by the lake and rivers I tend to find myself bringing along a more powerful amp.

 

[Jazzdogg]

When people are saying "You should have X wattage, and Y speakers for Z room."

My question is for, generally speaking, how many people fit in a "Small", a "Medium", and a "Large" room?

Way back when, I used a 200-watt combo (1 x15) with a compact 1 x 15 on top of it for all of my (admittedly small number of) gigs, and never really had it cranked up. The gigs were in a variety of smaller places, so, I can't comment on anything bigger.

Just kind of looking for a rule of thumb on what a room "size" is.

A lot of the consideration centers around how many people will be in the room, what kind of music is being played, and how loudly. I've played quiet music to crowds of 200 with 100 Watts and a 1x8 cabinet, but that wouldn't work with a loud drummer and guitars playing rock in the same room occupied by the same number of people.

 

[mambo4]

a loooong time ago I read "100 watts per 100 people" as a rule of thumb. ( 200 people? I forget )
Might have been in a sound reinforcement manual

Number of people does imply a certain range of room size

 

[Aloe]

how many people fit in a "Small", a "Medium", and a "Large" room?

well, that depends on how do you stack them. some ways might be more efficient.

 

[MCS4]

A lot of the consideration centers around how many people will be in the room, what kind of music is being played, and how loudly. I've played quiet music to crowds of 200 with 100 Watts and a 1x8 cabinet, but that wouldn't work with a loud drummer and guitars playing rock in the same room occupied by the same number of people.

This. Plus, in the context of "loud drummer and guitars playing rock," I've played a lot of reasonably similarly sized venues that varied quite a bit in terms of how much of the guitar and bass sound support is expected to come from the amps on stage versus the PA and monitors. Sometimes a loud stage is expected by the venue and even the audience as much as the artists, particularly when it comes to venues that regularly host loud rock/metal.

 

[gtirard]

For me it depends mostly on the drummer. My drummer plays with a very controled volume, so a 400W amp (800W @ 8 ohm) and my 1x12 Barefaced cab are more than enough for any stage including outdoor. The only way he could play louder than me is if he gets PA support, and in that case, I can also have PA support if needed so…

 

[dbsfgyd1]

When people are saying "You should have X wattage, and Y speakers for Z room."

My question is for, generally speaking, how many people fit in a "Small", a "Medium", and a "Large" room?

Way back when, I used a 200-watt combo (1 x15) with a compact 1 x 15 on top of it for all of my (admittedly small number of) gigs, and never really had it cranked up. The gigs were in a variety of smaller places, so, I can't comment on anything bigger.

Just kind of looking for a rule of thumb on what a room "size" is.

As long as amps come with volume controls, you never have to worry about having too much. From an acquisition stand point, there isn’t to much difference in price to get from barely enough to get by to overkill. 400 watt powering a fairly efficient cab(s) can cover a lot of applications.

Example, I covered a room with such a rig seating 700 people with no FOH support on a gig with an 11 piece Motown review band with horns. Same band with FOH support, I use 300 watts powering a 112 cab as a personal monitor.

On the other hand, if you are playing doom rock with a couple of guitarist with each with 100 watt Marshall stacks and a drummer that plays with axe handles, you may need to revisit the 400 watt one cab thing or pray for FOH support.

 

[TeaTime]

well, that depends on how do you stack them. some ways might be more efficient.

I'd assume horizontal stacking? It seems like vertical stacking would result in too much space between audience ear levels.

 

[Wasnex]

Just kind of looking for a rule of thumb on what a room "size" is.

IMHO there is no rule of thumb based on room size. How much volume your rig must be capable of producing is dependent more on how loud your bandmates insist on playing than anything else. A secondary factor is how well you want to hear yourself.

Although it may seem counter-intuitive, in some circumstances you may find that you can use a less powerful amp in a bigger venue. The reason is because the band can spread out more and the direct sound from each sound source drops off at a rate of 6dB for each doubling of distance.

IME people tend to want to hear themself at least 6-10dB louder than other sound sources. In a small venue the band members are so close together that it's impossible for everyone to get the desired 6-10dB of headroom. This often results in what we call volume wars. One person can't hear as well as they want, so they turn up. This cause a different person to not be able to hear as well as they want, so they turn up. This cause the first person to turn up again...and it goes on and on.

Let's say your amp is producing 110dB at 1 meter and you want to know the SPL of the direct sound at 4 meters.

Formula for decibel change over distance

20Log(distance 1/distance 2)

The decibel change that occurs over 1 to 4 meters is 20Log(1/4) = -12dB

If you start with 110dB and the sounds decrease by 12dB over the distance change 1m to 4m, you get 98dB at 4m.

Keep in mind this does not account for the reflected sound, which can build up over time.

 

[Wasnex]

As long as amps come with volume controls, you never have to worry about having too much.

Quite a few all-tube aficionados might would this point, as they feel their amp must be pushed a bit to sound it's best. So a 400W tube amp is not going to be optimum if you need to keep the volume down. Whether this is relevant can vary from one amp design to the next. It can also vary with the type of tone and feel you want.

 

[pbass2]

If you make 200w and two 15's work, then you're good, no need for anything more.
I can make use of 200w to 350w in most venues I play. Its when I get outside for weddings and 4th of July parties out by the lake and rivers I tend to find myself bringing along a more powerful amp.

I play from bars with no FOH support for the bass, to big outdoor stages. IME the bigger the gig, the less the size of the amp can start to matter because you get into proper monitoring usually (whether wedges or IEMs). For example, I use a 300w head into a 2x12 for pretty much everything. If it's definitely "small", I use about 150w into a 1x12. I haven't had either rig up past noon in any size situation in recent memory. Sometimes I bring both - 3 x 12"s @450w - stacked for "big" gigs but I don't really need it (though it's fun and looks cool).
In fact my onstage amp's volume is very often lower at those big gigs with proper support than it is at the bar where my amp is carrying the room.

 

[Bob_Ross]

ime the only variable is whether or not there is PA support for the backline.

If the bass (and drums, and guitars, etc.) are going through the house PA, I just need an amp big enough to serve as my personal onstage monitor (and maybe so the other band members can hear me, if there aren't fullrange monitors).

In that situation it doesn't matter if the room holds 75 people or 7,500 people.

...now, chances are if the room holds 7,500 people the stage is going to be a crap-ton bigger than the stage in a room that only holds 75 people, so that also informs my decision.

But my decision basically comes down to Do I Bring (1) Speaker Cabinet Or (2)?
(I sometimes complicate things by asking myself do I bring the 400 watt head or the 600 watt head, but I realize that's just hairsplitting and doesn't make a significant difference.)

If there's no PA support and my bass rig has to carry the whole room, I'll almost always bring (2) cabinets just to be safe.

Note, none of my amps are tube amps nor "character" amps so there's no need to crank them up to a certain level in order to get My Sound®. I just need to hear me.

 

[Wasnex]

I used to pretty much always have full PA support; so my rig did not need to carry the room or deliver huge lows. It served primarily as my personal stage monitor.

My last touring rig was rack based and had a QSC USA series power amp rated for 260W x 2 at 8 ohms. For speakers, I had my choice of an Eden D210XLT and D410XLT. The largest venues I played included large festival stages and arenas. I typically used only the 210. When I brought the 410 it was usually to meet someone else's needs.

The David series cabs had pretty high sensitivity ratings. The D210XLT was rated 103dB 1W/1m. Calculated SPL with 260W is ~127dB. I suspect this may be a bit optimistic, but I don't remember ever pushing the amp to clipping. Both cabs and both sides of the amp could play way louder than I am willing to play.

 

[Medicine Man]

As long as you can play as loud as your drummer (typically a 2x10 or 1x15, more or less depending on where your drummer lands on the talent/delusions of grandeur scale), it doesn't really matter. The place where it even makes a difference otherwise is outdoor DIY shows, which I guess could be either small or medium. At most small shows being as loud as the drums fills the room and bigger shows have good PA support, but sometimes people book these DIY type outdoor shows where either the PA or the person running it isn't enough. Then all the sudden your cab situation matters quite a bit.