I need a go to Powered Mixer!

[mello_bedwetter]

We don't mic the drums. I wish we had more kick.... but we live with it.

The bass I only run through the PA to get over the top... literally. We rarely have a stage, and when the dance floor fills up we need the bass and lead guitar in the PA so the people at the back can hear.

Ok, once in a while I put some bass in the PA if the sound level has gone way up and the venue is not complaining. Rather than boosting stage volume, I let the PA handle some of it.

Basically, I always connect the bass amp DI to the PA "just in case".

We have never had a problem where the PA couldn't handle the volume. The PA has 2x400W for the mains and 400W for the monitors. This is all the mains and the monitors can handle anyway.

This is for venues up to about 250.... 200 is probably safer.

I think I may be getting it. You still have your amps doing most of the work on the guitars and bass. Going through the PA with a mix to help distribute the volume. Run a little through the PA to reach a bigger area instead of cranking the amps and blowing away the people in front.

 

[seanm]

Did you not post recently that your PA speakers sound like crap and you think that the horns are blown? Maybe running all that into them is the reason. If it wasn't you that posted that then nevermind.

Wow, you have a good memory. Yes, that was me. No, I don't think running everything through the mains caused it. I have done the same in other bands with no problems. Although, in the interest of complete disclosure, none of the other bands had the exact same configuration.

I am suspicious that the power amp we used before the powered mixer was the problem. It was a hifi amp that I believe had no protection on the output and was probably being overworked. I think the spikes killed the horns.

 

[modulusman]

In that case I guess a power amp could be used with the powered mixer? Sorry for all the questions. We're just a bunch of 50 year olds that started out just jammin' in a basement but now we've been playing "out"...not a lot but maybe once a month. I need to find some diagrams of this stuff. I do appreciate you helping.

the problem is that low frequencies as in bass and kick drum require more power. A powered mixer and speaker on sticks is fine for vocals and guitars but you will run out of headroom fast with low frequencies.

 

[seanm]

I think I may be getting it. You still have your amps doing most of the work on the guitars and bass. Going through the PA with a mix to help distribute the volume. Run a little through the PA to reach a bigger area instead of cranking the amps and blowing away the people in front.

Correct.

 

[otherclef]

Powered speakers will generally sound way better than passive speakers of the same quality.

How can this be true??? How does having the power amp/circuitry in the cab vs. a few feet away make them generally better sounding?

 

[modulusman]

Wow, you have a good memory. Yes, that was me. No, I don't think running everything through the mains caused it. I have done the same in other bands with no problems. Although, in the interest of complete disclosure, none of the other bands had the exact same configuration.

I am suspicious that the power amp we used before the powered mixer was the problem. It was a hifi amp that I believe had no protection on the output and was probably being overworked. I think the spikes killed the horns.

So if you had just been using the cabs for vocals do you think it would have fried the horns? I don't know what you are using for PA cabs but they might not be up to the task.

 

[modulusman]

How can this be true??? How does having the power amp/circuitry in the cab vs. a few feet away make them generally better sounding?

Because they will have built in Digital signal processing. Also the amp is the correct size for the enclosure. Most of the better powered boxes are bi-amped which is a big advantage. The engineers that built the powered speakers have spent alot of time and money to make the speaker sound good. EDIT - If seanm had been using powered speakers chances are his horns would still work.

 

[mello_bedwetter]

So I could use the powered mixer but use a power amp with it and run subs. The biggest gig we do is may 100-150 people. I guess you need 2 subs?
To be honest and you've probably heard this a few times, if the guitars' volume were under control running just the vocals through the PA would work fine. You would think that at 50 years old they would try to keep the volume down. I think it's a "my amp has more power than yours does" thing.

 

[seanm]

So if you had just been using the cabs for vocals do you think it would have fried the horns? I don't know what you are using for PA cabs but they might not be up to the task.

We are using Peavey PR15s. They have worked.... adequately in other bands. They are a standard speaker here. And they sure are light!

And I guess I should have made it clear, the vocalist also plays harp. I believe it is the harp that is the problem.

 

[seanm]

EDIT - If seanm had been using powered speakers chances are his horns would still work.

+1 As much as I don't like powered speakers, I have to agree with this. A good, heck probably even most cheap, powered speaker should have built in protection for the speakers.

However, a good powered mixer should also have some clip protection.

 

[modulusman]

So I could use the powered mixer but use a power amp with it and run subs. The biggest gig we do is may 100-150 people. I guess you need 2 subs?
To be honest and you've probably heard this a few times, if the guitars' volume were under control running just the vocals through the PA would work fine. You would think that at 50 years old they would try to keep the volume down. I think it's a "my amp has more power than yours does" thing.

Depends on the sub. A good one will out perform 2 budget models. A powered sub might be a better option although you might need a crossover.

 

[modulusman]

+1 As much as I don't like powered speakers, I have to agree with this. A good, heck probably even most cheap, powered speaker should have built in protection for the speakers.

However, a good powered mixer should also have some clip protection.

Just curious as to why you don't like powered speakers.

 

[4Mal]

Those peaveys basically suck. Sorry but maybe as a medium volume stage monitor but thats it...

Mixer. Yamaha emx 5000/12 or 16, 2x500 into 4 ohm. I use the power for 2 monitor mixes. Peavey Q series eq with fedback detection for the monitors. qSC K 10's for mains. FEarful 12 subs on a QSC plx 2402 and dbx crossover. This setup rocks...

 

[seanm]

Just curious as to why you don't like powered speakers.

I don't like having to run power cords all over the stage. If you only have one power source, you have to run extension cords everywhere. The amps tend to all be along the walls, but the monitors are out front.

I have never used powered mains, but would probably have much less problem with them since the cables tend to run along the walls.

That said, it would be nice to have three monitors on stage. And it would be much easier to just run three, or at least one, powered monitor. The powered mixers I have only support 4 ohms... so that means two monitors. With powered monitors you are basically unlimited.

So I don't like them.... but in the long run will probably end up buying at least one.

 

[modulusman]

We are using Peavey PR15s. They have worked.... adequately in other bands. They are a standard speaker here. And they sure are light!

And I guess I should have made it clear, the vocalist also plays harp. I believe it is the harp that is the problem.

If the guy is blowing his harp into his vocal mic he is probably over driving the channel. If the mixer has limit lights on it make sure he isn't too hot.

 

[seanm]

Those peaveys basically suck. Sorry but maybe as a medium volume stage monitor but thats it...

Nah, they are too large to make good monitors for a small venue.

Mixer. Yamaha emx 5000/12 or 16, 2x500 into 4 ohm. I use the power for 2 monitor mixes. Peavey Q series eq with fedback detection for the monitors. qSC K 10's for mains. FEarful 12 subs on a QSC plx 2402 and dbx crossover. This setup rocks...

How well would the K 10s work as vocal (plus harp) mains without the subs for a loudish band? i.e. Do you need the subs for the K 10s to really work?

 

[modulusman]

I don't like having to run power cords all over the stage. If you only have one power source, you have to run extension cords everywhere. The amps tend to all be along the walls, but the monitors are out front.

I have never used powered mains, but would probably have much less problem with them since the cables tend to run along the walls.

That said, it would be nice to have three monitors on stage. And it would be much easier to just run three, or at least one, powered monitor. The powered mixers I have only support 4 ohms... so that means two monitors. With powered monitors you are basically unlimited.

So I don't like them.... but in the long run will probably end up buying at least one.

Well it is a few more extension cords but in the few extra minutes it takes to run them you will be miles ahead in sound quality. We usually run an extension cord on each side of the stage with a powerstrip on the end. We can then plug our powered tops/subs and LED lighting into it.

 

[modulusman]

Nah, they are too large to make good monitors for a small venue.



How well would the K 10s work as vocal (plus harp) mains without the subs for a loudish band? i.e. Do you need the subs for the K 10s to really work?

The k10s will kill what you are using now in clarity,volume and probably bass response. On paper one k10 is almost as loud as a pair of pr15s the K10 is also 10 pounds lighter.

 

[Marko 1]

Many years ago I bought a Yamaha powered box mixer, like the 8-channel 1,000-watter (500x2@4ohms), but the old one with 800-watts.

Countless la-familia basement karaoke parties, DJ/Karaoke’d a few small bars and a buncha family/friends birthday, back-yard parties… even did a band thing with some buddies in a small bar.

Have been doing the band thing with passive/power amp PAs, and now bought all powered JBL and RCF mains/subs/monitors, even digital mixer… but that’s just recently; haven’t even taken them out yet.

But I still use the crap outta that old Yamaha, usually with two Peavey PR15s for small stuff at the school where I teach, staff parties (they love the karaoke, haha)… and the few family/friends stuff that I can’t avoid.

Sorry… had a drink (no work tomorrow) and I’m waxing sentimental, haha.

 

[seanm]

Many years ago I bought a Yamaha powered box mixer, like the 8-channel 1,000-watter (500x2@4ohms), but the old one with 800-watts.

EMX 88s? I have one of those.