I need help!

[Stagnation]

Hi I'm very new to this forum - almost as new as I am to learning bass I've been messing about since last christmas, learning some songs etc. but now I want to advance my playing and get as good as I can. What's the best way to do this without paying someone to teach me? Like what theory should I learn? I've been working with scales but I have no idea which scales are most important to learn
help would be very much appreciated

 

[yeggi]

im new as well, intrested in hearing the replies. i found www.studybass.com and it works like a charm. study it and dont skip a step! even if u think u know it

 

[Minotauros]

Read this thread http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=630718

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Hi I'm very new to this forum - almost as new as I am to learning bass I've been messing about since last Christmas, learning some songs etc. but now I want to advance my playing and get as good as I can. What's the best way to do this without paying someone to teach me? Like what theory should I learn? I've been working with scales but I have no idea which scales are most important to learn
help would be very much appreciated

Yes to studybass.com and that post that Minotauros listed. Here is my two cents worth.

Yes again to taking fake chord sheet music and composing a bass line from that, i.e. your bass line echos the chord tones used in the song. If the chord is shown as C here are your choices:
Root C repeated 8 to the bar.
R-5 repeated twice to the bar.
C chord = R-3-5-3 then the........
C7 chord = R-3-5-b7
Cm chord = R-b3-5-b3
Cm7 = R-b3-5-b7
Cmaj7 = R-3-5-7
Cmaj7/G with a slash chord you ignore everything but the slash - so here a G chord R-3-5-3 would work.
C6maj7#11 up to you but I ignore everything beyond C6 and play R-3-5-6.
C and F in the same measure. R-5 to both. That's all the room you have in 4/4 time.
Same chord for two measures. R-5, R-5 for one measure then R-R- and two other chord tones like - 3-8 or whatever.

OK that said -- the groove is the important thing if repeated roots work best - use that. Instead of R-3-5-3 if R-R-3-3-5-5-6-5 works best use that.

What I'm saying badly is know what could be done and then rely upon your gut feel for what fits best in producing the groove. It's your bass line trust your gut. IMO - As long as you are keeping the beat and laying down a good groove the specific notes are not all that important -- as long as you are in key/scale. Root nothing or Root - 5 will play a lot of bass.

I recommend you gather some sheet music and analyze the bass clef used in those specific song.

Now you asked about scales. The major or natural minor scale have written thousands of melodies. Are you being asked to take lead breaks? If not, leave scales in your practice routine, but concentrate on chord tones for your bass lines for now.

That and jamming to the backing tracks that are on the Internet is what I would recommend.

C6 is R-3-5-6 and try repeating the Dm pentatonic (Blues Scale) over this. That scale pattern is for 6 string guitar ignore the top two strings.

Good luck.

 

[Stagnation]

thanks for the help also MalcolmAmos, from what I understand that's basically taking the root notes from the chords played? Because to be quite honest I have no idea what you were saying, I have very little experience with any kind of sheet music other than tabs ^,^' essentially I don't know any kind of music theory at all

Yes again to taking fake chord sheet music and composing a bass line from that, i.e. your bass line echos the chord tones used in the song. If the chord is shown as C here are your choices:
Root C repeated 8 to the bar.
R-5 repeated twice to the bar.
C chord = R-3-5-3
C7 chord = R-3-5-b7
Cm chord = R-b3-5-b3
Cm7 = R-b3-5-b7
Cmaj7 = R-3-5-7
Cmaj7/G with a slash chord you ignore everything but the slash - so here a G chord R-3-5-3 would work.
C6maj7#11 up to you but I ignore everything beyond C6 and play R-3-5-6.
C and F in the same measure. R-5 to both. That's all the room you have in 4/4 time.
Same chord for two measures. R-5, R-5 for one measure then R-R- and two other chord tones like - 3-8 or whatever.

OK that said -- the groove is the important thing if repeated roots work best - use that. Instead of R-3-5-3 if R-R-3-3-5-5-6-5 works best use that.

What I'm saying badly is know what could be done and then rely upon your gut feel for what fits best in producing the groove. It's your bass line trust your gut. IMO - As long as you are keeping the beat and laying down a good groove the specific notes are not all that important -- as long as you are in key/scale. Root nothing or Root - 5 will play a lot of bass.

I recommend you gather some sheet music and analyze the bass clef used in those specific song.

 

[DudeistMonk]

thanks for the help also MalcolmAmos, from what I understand that's basically taking the root notes from the chords played? Because to be quite honest I have no idea what you were saying, I have very little experience with any kind of sheet music other than tabs ^,^' essentially I don't know any kind of music theory at all

Yes...except your terminology is a little messed up.

Only the lowest note in the chord is called the root...The rest are assigned degrees based on this like 3rd, flat 3rd, 5th etc.

All of them are viable tones to use in your bass line provided they are in the chord (and if they aren't and they serve a purpose like connecting chord tones/leading to the next chord). Chord tones should get the most emphasis though as a general rule. Also 95% of the time the first note in each measure is the root note.

Learn to play the 12 bar blues and this will all make total sense, then apply that knowledge to rock that will make sense too. Also study bass explains all the stuff Malcolm said with charts and examples, so yeah, go there.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Sorry, I thought you were a little farther down the road than you are.

Fake chord sheet music can be your friend. Here is what it looks like:
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The acoustic guitar grabs a D chord and starts strumming and singing. When he gets to the word "Dream" he changes to the A7 chord and keeps strumming and singing, at the word "scheme" he grab another D chord.

OK what do you do with this? When he is playing the D chord you play a Root nothing (D note) and repeat that D note till he changes to the A7 chord. You do likewise and start sounding another Root nothing A-A-A-A.

All that other R-3-5-3 stuff forget about for now. Just get Root nothing and then root - 5 under your belt first.

Here is a 12 bar blues track. Do roots only and change with the chord changes. and print off a bass guitar fretboard chart. Click on Diagram and then Show all notes.

Have fun.

 

[Stagnation]

thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it I think I've been learning stuff ahead of my game so far, I still need help nailing the basics of bass.. I try to dedicate as much time a day to practicing, I really do want to get as good as I possibly can, I'm just still slightly unsure where to begin practicing and basically what I should do when I practice..

 

[MalcolmAmos]

First know your fretboard. Know where all the notes are on the 3rd and 4th string so you can place your scale pattern. Then know where the intervals are, i.e. where is the 2nd, as it relates to the root. Where is the 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc.

Get some fake chord on your favorite songs and play along as best you can.

Someone mentioned www.studybass.com and start on screen one and do not skip around.

Good luck.

 

[Stagnation]

thanks mate you've been a great help

 

[grifff]

Yes...except your terminology is a little messed up.

Only the lowest note in the chord is called the root...The rest are assigned degrees based on this like 3rd, flat 3rd, 5th etc.

This isn't always the case...I'll leave that for another thread though.

www.studybass.com is a great resource. Go to a store and buy Hal Leonard's Bass Method, it's a great book and a great place to get started. If you started with a teacher, you'd most likely start with this book.

 

[Minotauros]

OK what do you do with this? When he is playing the D chord you play a Root nothing (D note) and repeat that D note till he changes to the A7 chord. You do likewise and start sounding another Root nothing A-A-A-A.

To confuse him even more (though my intention is to help ), on the second Dmaj chord he could stay on an A. That would be the 5th of Dmaj and the R of A7. Might be an interesting sound. Though I know you told him to forget the 3 & 5 stuff for now. But this works out real nice if you forget to change your note or use the wrong note. I did that accidentally by playing a B over an F#m chord (I was 1 string off)... I know, non-harmonic note, B being in F# scale.

My point, however, is that's where knowledge of chord triads comes in (I know you know all this ). If the chords in a progression have notes in common, and you stay pounding on that common note, you could be getting an interesting sound without much effort or realizing it.

In my guitar lessons, when I took them, I thought the only reason for learning triads was to learn inversions. And who was going to use inversions when a song was already written? When I picked up bass I thought "um, I think I better start boning up on my triads".

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

studybass.com is good.

The Berlin thread also.

Find a great teacher.

 

[Michael Campbel]

I'm only a year into this, so I know where you're coming from. Knowing the fretboard is certainly worthwhile. An exercise I do every day, sometimes multiple times a day, is to go through every note, and find every occurance of it on the fretboard. Find all the A's, then all the C's, then all the G's, etc.

Then, rotate through the notes, 1 per string. A on your lowest string, then B on your next one up, then C on the next one... when you get to the top string, come back down. Keep going up and down the strings until you're back on A on your first string. Then start on the second string; or the highest string and go backwards. Or start on B. Or step by thirds, fourths, fifths. Or skip strings, then skip strings while doing thirds - the possibilities are almost endless.

 

[DudeistMonk]

This isn't always the case...I'll leave that for another thread though.

www.studybass.com is a great resource. Go to a store and buy Hal Leonard's Bass Method, it's a great book and a great place to get started. If you started with a teacher, you'd most likely start with this book.

Yeah, mentioning inversions would have been a whole 'nother paragraph just to explain the concept.

 

[Chris K]

Root on the 3rd string.
G|---6---|-------|---7---|---R---| 1st string
D|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
A|-------|---R----|-------|---2---|
E|-------|---5----|-------|---6---|4th string
QUOTE]
Exactly what I do, a pity you lost 7 on A 1st fret.

I'd like to add a very easy way to both remember and finger interval positions. Like Malcolm, I take the major scale as a model. However, I substitute R (root) with number 1, because it's easier to memorize in the following system.

Step 1: Memorize 4152637, but vertically:
4
1
5
2
6
3
7

This number indicates the position of intervals on one fret across the strings, so if 4 is on the G string, 1 will be on D, 5 on A, 2 on E. If 2 is on the D string, on A you will have 6, on E you get 3, on B, if you play a 5-stringer, you have 7.

Step 2: Mind that the next number 1 is either two strings+two frets up or down; this goes for any number. (After some advancement, also note that the second next same number is three strings down and three frets up,or the other way around)

To get a more general picture, I take a 7-stringer as example, but the names of the strings don't really matter; it's all about the general pattern; notice 4152637 in the right column:

C |---2---|--------|---3---|---4---|
G |---6---|--------|---7---|---1---|
D |---3---|---4----|-------|---5---|
A |---7---|---1----|-------|---2---|
E |-------|---5----|-------|---6---|
B |-------|---2----|-------|---3---|
F#|-------|---6----|-------|---7---|

fi |---I---|---M----|---R---|---P---|

Some players will benefit from a large wall poster of this stuff for better visualization.

Step 3: Learn to play a major scale over these intervals, starting from (f.e.) the A-string somewhere up the neck, using the (one finger per fret) fingerings from the bottom line. Practice up the neck in a comfortable position, to, at first, avoid large stretches.

This way you'll develop a standard fingering for intervals (exceptions to these standard fingerings will come to you very naturally). Start with one octave up and down, later find out what you have to do (in terms of shifts) to follow the scale farther up or down. Try to not watch the fretting hand.

Step 4: In a couple of keys you most commonly play in, learn the names of the notes that correspond with the interval numbers. Later in all 12 major keys.

Step 5: In minor keys, b3 is best fingered (IMO) with the index finger, shifting down one position.

Step 6: To finger relative modes: Start dorian on 2, phrygian on 3, lydian on 4, mixolydian on 5, aeolian on 6, locrian on 7, ionian on 1)

Step 7: To finger parallel modes:

C |--b2--|---2---|--b3---|---3---|---4---|
G | #5/b6|---6---|--b7---|---7---|---1---|
D |--b3---|---3---|---4----|--b5---|---5---|
A |--b7---|---7---|---1----|--b2--|---2---|
E |-------|-- b5---|---5----|#5/b6|---6---|
B |-------|--b2--|---2----|---b3--|---3---|
F#|-------|#5/b6|---6----|---b7--|---7---|

fi |-------|---I---|---M----|---R---|---P---|

Take natural minor (aeolian) scale (1 2 b3 4 5 6 7 1) as basis for dorian, phrygian, locrian. Visualize the exceptions:
dorian: purple, prhygian: purple + green, locrian: purple + green + blue

Take the major (ionian) scale as basis for lydian, mixolydian. Visualize the exceptions:
lydian: red, mixolydian: purple

Good luck.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

I like to think it takes about 4-5 years to become a competent player, maybe 7 year plus to be a rounded one. In all there are two factors for a player the physical and the mental side. At first it is all physical, just getting to grips with the instrument means the ratio is 100% physical, 0% mental. It has to be that unless you have the natural ability to play as soon as you pick the instrument up. There is no mental side because you cannot even play, so thinking a musical idea then playing it is not going to be a factor.

So have fun play around on the bass, get use to it, learn simple songs, melodies, whatever just get used to handling the bass and its physical characteristics. Do this daily and make it fun, interesting, play along to any music that lets you do so from blues to country, rock to reggae. Simple melodies from TV, films, childrens songs, whatever just enjoy and let the physical side become less of a problem.

That ratio will change it will be come less physical, then to a point where you can think of things then play, now the ratio is 70% physical 30% mental. As you explore the mental side the physical side will lessen, it has to. Your application of your thinking will see that you use the physical side better (technique as it is called). I would say that when it is 50/50 on the physical and the mental side, then seek out theory principals and lessons.
You should have a good foundation to build on and the mental side will grow as you learn and the physical side will become less of a problem because of what you have to do in order to let the mental side grow.
As i said this takes time so use that time, its a long road but a good one.

If at any point before that 50/50 moment you wish to stop and hang around an idea or a genre, then do it, explore the music around you and have fun.
The word rut appears a lot, that is because the mental side has not growing and let the physical side race ahead, as said earlier one grows the other diminishes, but more so when the physical side races ahead, because the mind gets bored.
If we are not thinking new things then they will never happen, so the best players think better, so they are better as that will show in what they choose to play...or not choose to play.

So for me the advice is just enjoy getting to that 50/50 stage then evaluate where you want to go.. the journey starts there.

 

[Spino]

It would be a good idea to get some A4 grids representing the fretboard of your Bass up on the wall in the area where you practice.The grids should represent at least 6 frets of the fretboard and there should be plenty of space to write the notes and their enharmonic equivalents in if you wish .
The root should be in the middle of the grid say as A on the 4 string .Then name all the strings chromatically ,and numerically across & up all the strings .Then without much jumping around you'll have 2 Octaves under your fingers which is moveable according to key and if you see a chord sayin, Em7b5 (R b3,b5,b7)and you know your chord construction you'll know where to go for your note choice
There are only 4 types of Chord ,Major, minor,augmented & diminished . Root is KING .

Learning The fretboard
CHORD CONSTRUCTION IS A MUST
ARPEGGIOS
Cadences (chordal movement )
Visualisation away from the instrument is a huge part of learning, trust it .
Scales are all very well but learning to use them is what's important .Terminology and learning what the symbols mean is also important .The musical language .
grid
E string

Fret Note
1
2 6
3 b7
4 7
5 R
6 b2 /b9
7 2/9.................etc on all strings

Do the same thing with the Root on the 4th String 5th fret fill in the rest .

I'm a guitar player and I just spent 3 years ,started from scratch on Bass .I had a lot of theory but not the manual dexterity/strength ,so I had problems with my hands as well which I also learned to take care of, so go careful ,do some warmups before you start your practice . It's an obssesive instrument steals lotsa my time but I love it.
Jammin with LIVE Utube vids of songs that you like is great for your groove and you get the feelin of playing live ...yeah well sort of .Also the Live tracks are a lot longer and this helps build dexterity .Listen to Reggae for basslines with space .Alpha Blondys "Jeruselem" Live has a ,long acapella intro and then it drops into a solid ostinato line . Killer !!
This is not gonna happen overnight so you'll need a lotta paitence too ,take the Bass in your hands EVERY day listen to all types of Music and for God's sake don't get stuck in the wastelands of Metal Enjoy it and G'luck

 

[moyles]

download a program called guitar-pro. u can then find tabs for pretty much every song off 911tabs.com. that program not only guves u the notes, but it shows you how to play it. great for learning.
other than that, if you want to get good, only learn good, technical songs. no point learning song boring three note progression if you want to be called a "good" bassist.
listen to guys like stu hamm, victor wooten, marcus millar, alexis sklarevski, michael manring and les claypool. if you listen and learn the difficult stuff first, you'll progress much much faster.

 

[NathanEbel]

download a program called guitar-pro. u can then find tabs for pretty much every song off 911tabs.com. that program not only guves u the notes, but it shows you how to play it. great for learning.
other than that, if you want to get good, only learn good, technical songs. no point learning song boring three note progression if you want to be called a "good" bassist.
listen to guys like stu hamm, victor wooten, marcus millar, alexis sklarevski, michael manring and les claypool. if you listen and learn the difficult stuff first, you'll progress much much faster.

This. Guitar pro is sick
but I don't think you can really expect a new bassist to play hard material, it'll just be frustrating not beneficial. imo