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I need more power.

P

panaran

Dec 1, 2008
256
0
#1
I started playing bass about 4-5 months ago because my friends band needed a bass player. I've been playing guitar for 7-8 years so the switch went rather smooth, just took some fine tuning of my fingers to get my muscle memory to adjust for the larger spaces in the strings, so although I'm rather new to bass, I know a thing or two about guitars in general.

Anyway the first rig i picked up was a GK Backline 600 head and the GK 410glx cab, which I found on craigslist for a good price. This was a pretty good setup for the smaller bars we were playing at, but we have since started playing some bigger venues and the GK 410 gets rather "farty" when played loud, so I need something with some more bite.

Ideally I'm looking for a 410 + 115 setup with decent output limit in case i need to crank it a little more for bigger venues. I've searched around this site for a while but there is just so much info, it would take me a while to go through it all and time is of the essence.

Just wondering what cabs you guys would recommend. Im not looking for dirt cheap, but at the same time im not looking to spend an arm an a leg either. Bang for buck is ideal, however i want it to sound good so if i have to, ill spend the extra cash.

Im also up for different cab config suggestions. After reasearching on this site, i found a lot of people liked a 410 + 115 setup for type of shows we play, however any other config ideas are more than welcome. I'm also thinking about pulling the trigger on an Ampeg B4R head too, so keep that in mind.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

Tom
 
#3
Getting an actual price range would be helpful. (some people think $1k isn't very much, others don't want to spend more than $200.... etc)

What style of music do you play?

Any PA support?

What kind of tone do you use? (heavy bass, etc)

Looking to buy used or new?

Off the bat, I'd say "Avatar" - but that's just throwing out a suggestion at random.
 
#4
ashtray said:
Getting an actual price range would be helpful. (some people think $1k isn't very much, others don't want to spend more than $200.... etc)

What style of music do you play?

Any PA support?

What kind of tone do you use? (heavy bass, etc)

Looking to buy used or new?

Off the bat, I'd say "Avatar" - but that's just throwing out a suggestion at random.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I was actually just thinking I should have put some of that info in the OP to begin with.

For price, I would like to stay under 1k. 500-700 would be ideal, so im fine with used gear as long as it works. I could care less about cosmetic's.

We play all kinds of music, just anything you would hear in a bar. Floyd, zeppelin, stones, ACDC, chilli peppers, weezer, sublime, beatles, and the list goes on, so I'm not looking for any certain type of tone. Just something that sound good and is loud enough to fill in.

We do use a PA, but right now we just have vocals and lead singers acoustic guitar running through it. The "larger" venues we are playing are still rather smaller bars that don't require us to mic up anything yet.
 
#5
Get another GK GLX410 cab. The BK600 is 300w @ 4 ohms. A GLX410 is 8ohms. You're only pushing ~150w. The additional cab will get the overall impedance down to 4ohms to drive the BK600 @ 300w. Each cab will "see" ~150w. This will definitely increase your volume. And you may not have to drive the GK so hard. That's only a $300 investment.

Or spend $700 and get the Carvin B1500 head. 700w @ 8ohms! You'll have to be careful not to blow out you 410GLX--it's rated for 400w continuous @ 8 ohms. You'd have plenty of clean power on tap. Then when you step up to larger venues you can just add another cab.

Also, you might look at more sensitive cabs. The 410GLX is only 92 dB @ 1w/1m. The LS1503 I suggested is 101 dB @ 1w/1m. 6dB represents a significant increase in perceived volume.

Do some searches on TB on sensitivity and you'll find out what I'm talking about.
 
#6
honestjohnny said:
Get another GK GLX410 cab. The BK600 is 300w @ 4 ohms. A GLX410 is 8ohms. You're only pushing ~150w. The additional cab will get the overall impedance down to 4ohms to drive the BK600 @ 300w. Each cab will "see" ~150w. This will definitely increase your volume. And you may not have to drive the GK so hard. That's only a $300 investment.

The LS1503 I suggested is 101 dB @ 1w/1m. 6dB represents a significant increase in perceived volume.

Do some searches on TB on sensitivity and you'll find out what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

That's your best and least expensive option. 300 watts into a pair of 4x10 cabinets equals a lot of sound. At least rent an 8 ohm 4x10 cabinet and try it out. It's a cheap way to find out if it'll work. I'm betting it will, unless you are really playing at deafening volumes.
 
#7
If you play a big venue then you need a big pa so you can play through a small amp and run a line or mike into the big pa and let the subs and mains do the work. That is the professional way to do the work. That way you can fill a whole concert hall with sound froma 4x10 cabinet.
 
#8
62bass said:
That's your best and least expensive option. 300 watts into a pair of 4x10 cabinets equals a lot of sound. At least rent an 8 ohm 4x10 cabinet and try it out. It's a cheap way to find out if it'll work. I'm betting it will, unless you are really playing at deafening volumes.
Click to expand...

Agree with this.

My 1001 RBII was going into protected mode (shutting down due to a broken cold solder joint on the output section) and I had to to use my BL600 as backup. It didn't really cut through with a single 8 Ohm cab. I added another cab and that made all the difference.
 
#9
honestjohnny said:
Get another GK GLX410 cab. The BK600 is 300w @ 4 ohms. A GLX410 is 8ohms. You're only pushing ~150w. The additional cab will get the overall impedance down to 4ohms to drive the BK600 @ 300w. Each cab will "see" ~150w. This will definitely increase your volume. And you may not have to drive the GK so hard. That's only a $300 investment.

Or spend $700 and get the Carvin B1500 head. 700w @ 8ohms! You'll have to be careful not to blow out you 410GLX--it's rated for 400w continuous @ 8 ohms. You'd have plenty of clean power on tap. Then when you step up to larger venues you can just add another cab.

Also, you might look at more sensitive cabs. The 410GLX is only 92 dB @ 1w/1m. The LS1503 I suggested is 101 dB @ 1w/1m. 6dB represents a significant increase in perceived volume.

Do some searches on TB on sensitivity and you'll find out what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

62bass said:
That's your best and least expensive option. 300 watts into a pair of 4x10 cabinets equals a lot of sound. At least rent an 8 ohm 4x10 cabinet and try it out. It's a cheap way to find out if it'll work. I'm betting it will, unless you are really playing at deafening volumes.
Click to expand...

Easy8 said:
Agree with this.

My 1001 RBII was going into protected mode (shutting down due to a broken cold solder joint on the output section) and I had to to use my BL600 as backup. It didn't really cut through with a single 8 Ohm cab. I added another cab and that made all the difference.
Click to expand...

Sound good guys. Ill try this out and see if its what im looking for.

Would this work with an 8 Ohm 115 or would I be better off just getting a 2nd 410? I like the sound of the GK 410glx but a little more low end might be nice.

Also where could I rent a cab? Theres a Guitar Center right by my house, would they do this?
 
#11
If you use a different cab than the GK 410GLX you may or may not get the full 6 dB increase. Also, you'll get more low end by increasing speaker area. But try different things, see what you like.

Another thing to consider is that you'll be hauling 2 410's and getting only 98 dB @1w/1m and a possible 300w. With a single Carvin LS1503 and the B1500 head, you'd already be getting 101 dB @ 1w/1m and 700w. 3 dB is the smallest perceptible increase in volume that the human ear can hear. Compare the weight of the two setups, though--186 lbs for 2 410GLX's vs. 58 lbs for one LS1503. That's not even including the heads! It all depends on what you want to do with your money. Adding a cab is definitely cheaper, but the Carvin rig is lighter, more powerful, and more flexible.

Right now, you could get the Carvin rig for just over $1K shipped. Not that I'm trying to push Carvin gear or anything. It's just what I use. But if you can find a 4 ohm cab with a high sensitivity, then I'd suggest you use that with your BL600 because that's a great head.
 
#13
Most big cities have places that rent out PA and amps, even guitars and basses. Maybe not GC. I don't know them. I live in Canada. Look through the yellow pages and make a few calls. You'll find something unless you're really out in the country. Cities here in Canada of only 100,000 have rental places. There's bound to be something near to you.

Adding an 8 ohm 4x10 will give you more speaker area than adding a 1x15. Some cabinets are more efficient than others. But many like the combined sound of a 15 and 4x10. It seems to add bass where it's needed most. Many 4x10 cabinets put out more deep bass than 15s.
 
#16
If your going to add the Avavtar 212 to the GLX then get the 8 ohm version.
Just IMO the Artist series cabs (like the RBX) are a far better cab than the GLX. GLX is a good "entry level" cab, but again IMO a place to step up from.
The Avatar's are nice if the Artist series G-K cabs are beyond your reach.
 
#17
B-string said:
If your going to add the Avavtar 212 to the GLX then get the 8 ohm version.
Just IMO the Artist series cabs (like the RBX) are a far better cab than the GLX. GLX is a good "entry level" cab, but again IMO a place to step up from.
The Avatar's are nice if the Artist series G-K cabs are beyond your reach.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with you. The GLX was in fact my first cab. Its only a matter of time before that and the GK BL600 are replaced. Gotta play more shows for rig money haha.
 
#18
Do realize that the Avatar cab will be louder than the GK because of the increased sensitivity? It may overpower the GLX. I would suggest going with the 4 ohm 212 and leaving the GLX at home. Then you'd have a 300 watt 212 rig that will be SIGNIFICANTLY louder and lighter than your previous setup. Good luck.
 
#19
I think I'm going to go with a 212 4ohm cab and see how it sounds with the GK. If it sounds bad ill ditch the GK and just use the Avatar.

I just looked on Avatars website and there is a scratch and dent 410 Neo cab thats within about $20 of the 212. Its 4ohm as well, so I could get either or. Which one would you think I'd be better off getting? Would the 212 have more umph than a 410? in this case price isnt an issue so it really depends on which will be the better sound for buck.


Edit: I have a Hartke 115 cab that I bought for really cheap because it has a PA speaker in it that doesn't have huge power rating. I pretty much just bought it because i thought i would swap the woofer one day. I found this for a reasonable price and was thinking of swapping it in and using this cab as well to try and keep costs down. Would it be worth it? here are the specs. This would be paird up with either the 410 or 212, tho since this is a 15" woofer im leaning more toward the 410 now.

EMINENCE BASSLITE C2515
15" woofer
Impedance - 4 ohms
RMS Power Rating - 300 Watts
Frequency Response - 52Hz - 2.5kHz
Sensitivity - 98dB SPL
Price: $115
 
#20
A 212 will sound quite different from a 410, and that could be a deal-breaker. Without testing in the band, you're guessing. The opinions of others are somewhat meaningless because their situations differ from yours.

Remember that the drummer, because he's acoustic, sets the overall band volume. If he plays quietly, you all get to turn down to avoid drowning him out. If he pounds loudly, then the band becomes too loud for comfort. And you start spending lots of money trying to keep up---which may never succeed. (A 20w guitar amp can keep up with most anything.)
 

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